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Author Topic: Is self-identification with Paganism what makes one a Pagan?  (Read 189 times)
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Melkor_Grimm
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« on: March 30, 2010, 04:23:06 PM »

I understand that Paganism is an umbrella term for a large number of non-Christian/Jewish/Muslim religions, though there are some of us who like to call themselves simply 'Pagan'. For some, this is because they are Eclectic, others because they have not yet chosen a specific path within Paganism. I've even heard of Athiestic Paganism and Agnostic Paganism. For myself, I'm in the process of 'reviewing' my beliefs about deity, and am considering Athiestic Paganism.
Seeing as Paganism itself is 'dogma-free' (that is not to say that certain paths within Paganism don't have dogma), I would quite like to be a non-practicing Pagan - no ritual, no meditation etc - just living my life in the way I feel is right, such as trying my best to be eco-friendly (I would never pollute and I recycle regularly), and pretty much being obsessed with Paganism lol. I love that it is as vast as it is - all the different Pagan religions and forms of Paganism entrigue me. I am not saying that I wouldn't ever practice my spirituality, just that it would only be on occasion when I felt moved to, not because I have to in order to be a good Pagan. I believe I am just as Pagan as some initiated High Priestess.
Being Pagan is what makes me the happiest I have ever been, because I feel that I can finally be myself, and not live by some strict dogma (I was raised by a strictly Christian family). I believe that I am Pagan and have been for quite a while without realising it. It is a part of me and always have been. I hope this question doesn't seem stupid at all, I would just like to hear people's opinion as this, and whether I will be accepted as a Pagan despite having a little bit of a different approach to it.
So would I be correct in saying that what makes one Pagan is self-identifying with it, and not being a Christian, Jew, or other major religion? I needn't have any religious duty/or other duties other than those I choose for myself, and I needn't believe in gods or other deities if I don't wish? I can just be?
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Brijrian
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« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2010, 01:55:39 PM »

I would just like to hear people's opinion as this, and whether I will be accepted as a Pagan despite having a little bit of a different approach to it.

I would say that this is one of the overall things that makes pagan people (in general) so lovely--we tend to encourage and be very accepting of "different" approaches to paganism!

So would I be correct in saying that what makes one Pagan is self-identifying with it, and not being a Christian, Jew, or other major religion?

I would say that this is correct from the perspective of a practitioner of one of the Abrahmic religions. I think that a Budhhist or Hindu or any number of other minority religions would probably not consider themselves pagan. 

I needn't have any religious duty/or other duties other than those I choose for myself, and I needn't believe in gods or other deities if I don't wish? I can just be?

Of course you can just "be"! It isn't required that you find a label for yourself, try to believe things that don't "resonate", or perform spiritual practices if they have no strong meaning for you. No one here is going to persecute you, certainly!
 
To me personally, being Pagan implies that at minimum a person believes in the existence of multiple Dieties and has a reverence for nature. IMO, this would be whether or not you have a personal relationship with one or more dieties, or regularly held ritual or other spiritual practice.

Now you can hold many of the same broad values and morals of pagans (which may include: eco-awareness, tolerance other religions, etc.) without belief in Diety, but IMO that doesn't make you pagan. It makes you a very pagan-friendly eco-athiest, who fits in very well in this crowd. Smiley


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Phoenix Brijrian
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« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2010, 08:08:35 AM »

Quote
I've even heard of Athiestic Paganism and Agnostic Paganism. For myself, I'm in the process of 'reviewing' my beliefs about deity, and am considering Athiestic Paganism.

I am somewhat of a skeptic myself, I cannot convince myself that my deities do not exist, in spite of considerable effort.  So, while I qualify as neither completely agnostic or atheist, I understand that drive. But I also understand that the need to not believe could still be the last of my reaction to the heavy handedness of most organized religion and its historical legacy of domination and destruction.
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Seeing as Paganism itself is 'dogma-free' (that is not to say that certain paths within Paganism don't have dogma), I would quite like to be a non-practicing Pagan - no ritual, no meditation etc - just living my life in the way I feel is right, such as trying my best to be eco-friendly (I would never pollute and I recycle regularly), and pretty much being obsessed with Paganism lol.

Hmm.  I don't actually know of any regular pagan path that is what I would call dogma free.  There are several dogmas...and other than philosophically identifying with something like the Hellenic concepts like arete, I am not sure what it would mean to be a non-practicing pagan.  And even the very loose association with something like the ancient Hellenic pagan concepts has implicit dogma---responsibilities to polis and family---and yes, to gods. 

I find it confusing that you say you are obsessed with paganism, and yet there seems to be no particular aspect that you actually desire to live in accord with, why not simply say you are agnostic or atheist and be done with it?


 
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I believe I am just as Pagan as some initiated High Priestess.

I can believe I am the queen of England.  That doesn't make it so.  High Priestesses serve---they serve gods and often, covens of humans as clergy.  You have stated that you don't want to "serve" anything, not even a belief. 

Quote
Being Pagan is what makes me the happiest I have ever been, because I feel that I can finally be myself, and not live by some strict dogma (I was raised by a strictly Christian family). I believe that I am Pagan and have been for quite a while without realising it. It is a part of me and always have been. I hope this question doesn't seem stupid at all, I would just like to hear people's opinion as this, and whether I will be accepted as a Pagan despite having a little bit of a different approach to it.

Being pagan is not just a reaction to an upbringing that did not make you happy.  You sound to me as if you simply want to be something else, something less demanding.  Pagan life is not necessarily without its demands.  Actually, with your statements above, you might prefer some sorts of non-theistic Buddhism. You could enjoy the same refuge in nature and good actions without a lot of ritual or belief in deities.

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So would I be correct in saying that what makes one Pagan is self-identifying with it, and not being a Christian, Jew, or other major religion? I needn't have any religious duty/or other duties other than those I choose for myself, and I needn't believe in gods or other deities if I don't wish?

Not by any definition of neo-paganism that has meaning for me.  One can only stretch a definition so far before it snaps back in one's face.  You want something, but what you want does not sound like paganism to me, irregardless how fascinating you find the subject.
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I can just be?

Yes, you can just be.  But what it is you are?  That question may remain unanswered for a while.
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Brijrian
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« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2010, 01:58:20 PM »

I am somewhat of a skeptic myself, I cannot convince myself that my deities do not exist, in spite of considerable effort. 

I hear you there!

Margarian Bridger and Stephen Hergest, developed a triangle model of the three main concepts of Deity found among Pagans, with Red, Blue, and Yellow being at the points and shading into each other.
 
Red: The first of these endpoints is the orthodox deist position: the gods are personal, named, individual beings.
 
Blue: Deity exists. It is the Ultimate Sacred/Great Mystery/Source. It is so great, so subtle, so all encompassing, that we cannot hope to comprehend more than a tiny fraction of it. ("All Gods are One God" / Facets of a Diamond)
 
Yellow: The gods exist only as constructs within the human mind and imagination. They are Truths – valid ways of making sense out of human thought and experience, personifications of abstracts that enrich our lives (like Freedom, Love, Truth) – but they are not Facts and have no objectively verifiable existence.
 
Most people are not one solid color, and may change "position" at any given moment.  For example, in an academic setting, a pagan may relate to deity from the Yellow spectrum, but in ritual they will switch to the Red spectrum. 
 
One of the pagan beliefs is that multiple realities can exist simultaneously.   So Red and Blue people are both right at the same time.

So sometimes I do believe in my Gods, and sometimes I don't. Sometimes it changes throughout the day. I love the above illustration, because it describes so well the paradoxical positions I might take at any given time.
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Phoenix Brijrian
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« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2010, 11:05:17 PM »



I hear you there!

Margarian Bridger and Stephen Hergest, developed a triangle model of the three main concepts of Deity found among Pagans, with Red, Blue, and Yellow being at the points and shading into each other.
 
Red: The first of these endpoints is the orthodox deist position: the gods are personal, named, individual beings.
 
Blue: Deity exists. It is the Ultimate Sacred/Great Mystery/Source. It is so great, so subtle, so all encompassing, that we cannot hope to comprehend more than a tiny fraction of it. ("All Gods are One God" / Facets of a Diamond)
 
Yellow: The gods exist only as constructs within the human mind and imagination. They are Truths – valid ways of making sense out of human thought and experience, personifications of abstracts that enrich our lives (like Freedom, Love, Truth) – but they are not Facts and have no objectively verifiable existence.
 
 
 

Hey, lol, I am finally GREEN!  That is what yellow and blue make, right?  <g>
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« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2010, 10:49:23 PM »

you can call yourself a pagan if you like, as long as you don't go make a fool of yourself in public in the name of all pagans.  Envy

pagan also means a person who lives in the countryside.
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quot;A belief is purely an individual matter, and you cannot and must not organize it. If you do, it becomes dead, crystallized; it becomes a creed, a sect, a religion, to be imposed on others."  - Jiddu Krishnamurti
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