My rant for the day - Teachers & Students

[Lark]

Pardon me, but I just have to get this off my chest.

I love my religion and I love sharing it with others who are drawn to it.  I have been teaching Wicca for nearly 20 years to those who were interested in learning this path.  And during that same time I have had to decline to teach a lot of dedicated students who either weren't close enough to me for one on one lessons, who were under age, or who for one valid reason or another could not finish their studies.  And it breaks my heart every time I have to tell someone that I'm not able to take them on as a student.

That's why this current situation makes me so angry and disappointed.

Last Mabon I started teaching our Outer Court class which is an in-depth Wicca 101 course that will prepare the student to practice as a competent solitary, or if they wish will give them the training they need to request initiation in my coven.  We normally rent space for the classes with the entire class sharing the minimal costs of the rental space.  But this time there was only one student and I didn't think it was fair to her to make her pay the whole thing, so I paid the costs out of my own pocket.

The student requirements include attending a class twice a month with classes running about 1 1/2-2 hours.  In addition there are reading assignments in "When, Why...If" that the student is expected to complete on-time and hand in.  And of course it is expected that the student will actively participate in the classes, will actually study the material they are given, and will practice any of the exercises given in class.

Well, I should have known earlier that there was a problem.  This student never took notes.  Sure I gave her a handout on the material covered in class, but generally students take some notes if only to jog there memory later.  Nor did she ever have any questions even though I started and ended each class session by asking if she had any questions on any of the material we had covered.  But she did turn in her first homework on-time and well done, so I turned a blind eye for awhile.

As of two weeks ago she was a month behind on her homework and I told her she would need to have it completed and turned in to me last night.  Then I gave her a simple quiz asking her to name 4 correspondences for each of the four direction.  I even gave her a hint on one.  And we'd covered this in depth in October and she'd been given a detailed handout.  She couldn't even come up with one.  Then I asked her to bless and consecrate a candle, something we covered in November and which she'd supposed to practice on her own after that.  She had no idea how to even start.  So I told her to go home and study and to come back last night fully prepared on the material we had covered.

Last night I showed up for class...she never did.  When I came home I found that she had taken herself off the Seeker's list 5 minutes before class was to start.  She didn't even have the manners to let me know that she wouldn't be there, just left me sitting and waiting for her.  Needless to say she'll never have another shot at going through our program.

One of the core principles of Wicca is that of personal responsibility.  We make our choices and we act on them, and then we are held accountable for the consequences.  We also believe that when you follow this path you only get out of it what you are prepared to put into it.  I cannot teach my path to someone who isn't willing to put in any effort to learn it.  To simply believe that somehow you will become Wiccan without doing the necessary work both scholastic and inner that is required is foolish.  So this particular student wasted her time and mine and learned nothing.

I'm not so much angry as disappointed in the student.  But what makes me really, really angry is the fact that she wasted a chance that so many others would crawl on their knees to have and won't be able to get because their circumstances are different.  To my mind this particular student owes an apology to all of those others who didn't have the chance that she did.

For those of you who are lucky enough to find a good teacher, let this be a lesson.  Those of us who teach do it out of the love of our path.  But we will hold the student responsible for holding up their end of the deal.  To do otherwise is to fail the Gods we serve.  If you fail to do the necessary work then you don't fail the teacher, you fail yourself.  And you'll find yourself without a teacher again..and very little prospect of finding another in the future.

-Lark-

[RedRonin]

Isn't trying to benefit others by teaching such a joyous and wondrous experience?

I made a pact with myself about a dozen or so years ago that if I ever arrived for class and nobody showed up without me getting calls or some other such notice, that would be the last night I was teaching.

On two occasions, one single student showed when the rest didn't come for whatever reason.

The group is considerably larger now and much more responsible, but have no idea how close they came to me bagging the whole thing.

[Wolfe]

Pardon me, but I just have to get this off my chest.

I love my religion and I love sharing it with others who are drawn to it.  I have been teaching Wicca for nearly 20 years to those who were interested in learning this path.  And during that same time I have had to decline to teach a lot of dedicated students who either weren't close enough to me for one on one lessons, who were under age, or who for one valid reason or another could not finish their studies.  And it breaks my heart every time I have to tell someone that I'm not able to take them on as a student.

That's why this current situation makes me so angry and disappointed.

Last Mabon I started teaching our Outer Court class which is an in-depth Wicca 101 course that will prepare the student to practice as a competent solitary, or if they wish will give them the training they need to request initiation in my coven.  We normally rent space for the classes with the entire class sharing the minimal costs of the rental space.  But this time there was only one student and I didn't think it was fair to her to make her pay the whole thing, so I paid the costs out of my own pocket.

The student requirements include attending a class twice a month with classes running about 1 1/2-2 hours.  In addition there are reading assignments in "When, Why...If" that the student is expected to complete on-time and hand in.  And of course it is expected that the student will actively participate in the classes, will actually study the material they are given, and will practice any of the exercises given in class.

Well, I should have known earlier that there was a problem.  This student never took notes.  Sure I gave her a handout on the material covered in class, but generally students take some notes if only to jog there memory later.  Nor did she ever have any questions even though I started and ended each class session by asking if she had any questions on any of the material we had covered.  But she did turn in her first homework on-time and well done, so I turned a blind eye for awhile.

As of two weeks ago she was a month behind on her homework and I told her she would need to have it completed and turned in to me last night.  Then I gave her a simple quiz asking her to name 4 correspondences for each of the four direction.  I even gave her a hint on one.  And we'd covered this in depth in October and she'd been given a detailed handout.  She couldn't even come up with one.  Then I asked her to bless and consecrate a candle, something we covered in November and which she'd supposed to practice on her own after that.  She had no idea how to even start.  So I told her to go home and study and to come back last night fully prepared on the material we had covered.

Last night I showed up for class...she never did.  When I came home I found that she had taken herself off the Seeker's list 5 minutes before class was to start.  She didn't even have the manners to let me know that she wouldn't be there, just left me sitting and waiting for her.  Needless to say she'll never have another shot at going through our program.

One of the core principles of Wicca is that of personal responsibility.  We make our choices and we act on them, and then we are held accountable for the consequences.  We also believe that when you follow this path you only get out of it what you are prepared to put into it.  I cannot teach my path to someone who isn't willing to put in any effort to learn it.  To simply believe that somehow you will become Wiccan without doing the necessary work both scholastic and inner that is required is foolish.  So this particular student wasted her time and mine and learned nothing.

I'm not so much angry as disappointed in the student.  But what makes me really, really angry is the fact that she wasted a chance that so many others would crawl on their knees to have and won't be able to get because their circumstances are different.  To my mind this particular student owes an apology to all of those others who didn't have the chance that she did.

For those of you who are lucky enough to find a good teacher, let this be a lesson.  Those of us who teach do it out of the love of our path.  But we will hold the student responsible for holding up their end of the deal.  To do otherwise is to fail the Gods we serve.  If you fail to do the necessary work then you don't fail the teacher, you fail yourself.  And you'll find yourself without a teacher again..and very little prospect of finding another in the future.

-Lark-

Lark,

I agree 100% both on the Magical side and in my real life “work”. I have been approached or had people referred to me hundreds of times over the years. Perhaps less than 25% of those I have taken on fully appreciated the teaching and hung in there to finish. I thought at first perhaps I was not a good teacher, and then I realized that there was something missing in my students. Work ethic! I realize that learning a craft is an extracurricular activity, but if you are genuinely interested, and all beginning students say they are, you will put forth the time and the effort to do the home study, learn the runes, and learn how to build your altar and how to ground. But a lot of student who come in eager, and ready to “get to work” are looking for the instant witch kit as I call it. They want to DO magic, not learn magic. I was asked by one prospective student when she would get her BOS. I explained that I could help her build one, craft it, and then she could fill it, and she was aghast, you mean you don’t give them out ready made? She asked!

I fear too much TV and movies have given these people the impression that all they have to do is find a witch, read a book and boom there you go. I also practice wizardry. I have been approached by a bunch of Harry Potter want to be Wizards. Did I go to Hogwarts they ask? I mean come on people. Wizardry and high magic has been around for centuries, and I don’t think there has ever been a “school” as such to learn. Like a witch, a wizard learns by study, experimentation and by hopefully having a good teacher available.

As you point out so well, when you get a student that is looking for the quick fix, or the instant magic kit it wastes not only your time, but darn time, but it takes away from another prospective students chances. I have often wondered if the person I turned down, because this person “sounded” good, was the one student. You know what I mean, I think all teachers long for that one student, that will get it, and will run with it to become something they and you can be proud of and it will show that your words and knowledge had an impact.

Even at the college level in real life, I have students taking my History of Religion and Magic course just for credits. I understand that, they are the disruptive ones, the one who talk, snore, play and all manner of things during class. They take away from those that have a real thirst for knowledge, and it is so frustrating! I currently teach two classes a week at night 45 in each class. Out of the 45 people, there are 15 that are really interested in learning about the history of magic, what real magic is, and how it has been affected by the world. Two of those 15 are students of Wicca, and they are my “sponges”, I have spoken to one of the students mentor in WICCA, and she is one of those students that we all hope for. The rest, well like I said, there is no work ethic, they want it now and if it takes work, sorry they are not interested.

Golly I have turned this into a mini rant! LOL!

Good article Lark and I know you are a good teacher, you will find the “One student”.

Blessings

Wolfe

[Lark]

LOL!  You're welcome to my soapbox at any time, my friend.

I remember several years ago we had just started a new Dedican't class and one of their requirements was to read "When, Why...If" by Robin Wood.  One of the students was appalled.  "You mean you want me to read the WHOLE book?"  Yep, I replied, and do the exercises at the end of the chapters as well.  Needless to say she didn't last very long

We started that class with 8 students, only one completed the course.  But she was that special sort of  student and she's now studying with me for her 3rd Degree.  She'll make a great HPS one of these days.  And that makes all the rest worthwhile.

-Lark-

[Ara]

Can I take her place?

Seriously, though.  I hate it when I hear stories like this.  Because I so want to be there doing things in Wicca than here at this college learning more details about the relevance of water in the Bible than I ever wanted to know.  It doesn't make sense to me that other people get the opportunities and don't use them that I so want.

[Lark]

Hon, I wish you could.  I'd love to have you as a student.  But keep looking, there will be a teacher for you one day - probably when you least expect it.

-Lark-

[Wolfe]

Thank you my friend Lark. I like your soap box!

Ara, it is said that the right teacher will come along when you and they are ready. I understand you frustration, the college I teach at, has a predominant Christian background, and they are just now (I am the experiment) trying to learn more about “the others” as they call Pagans in the faculty meetings. LOL! There is so much you can learn on your own though. Ask lark for her book list, it is great, if it is not posted here, and then search the web. By coming to sites like this where you can ask questions, and learn from “live and online” witches and WICCANS, you can learn a lot of different and varied styles and opinions.

Wolfe

[Still Kate]

I'd take her place too !!
Even though I was taught many years ago, it would be very good for me to refresh and even re-learn a lot of it.

Jon and I work closely with Ryans football team, not quite the same thing but, Jon coaches and Manages them, and I am the Secretary for the Committee and whole club.  We have to pay to rent an indoor training hall in the winter and put lots of time and effort giving up Sundays and two evenings a week, not to mention the paperwork...... and sometimes only a handful turn up to train.
Its soul destroying to be honest.

Keep going, she obviously wasn't as committed as she had you think.

Bless'd Be
Kate.

[RedRonin]

Just to give a good example of the other side of the coin, though, check out the video clip in the other thread.

My partner there, Dennis, has been with me off and on for over 20 years.  He began while he was still in high school.  At one point, he got hooked up with a bunch of buttmunches and ended up hooked on heroin.  He literally died when he OD'd but the paramedics were able to bring him back.

His dad was in the merchant marine, so I became his surrogate dad for his rehab sessions.  Once he got out, he resumed his training and came back strong.  Together, we won the self-defense competitions at several national level tournaments in the 90's.

He left again about five years back.  He got married and started a family of his own.  Back in October he resumed his training again.  What is particularly obvious and very impressive is that even after such a long time off, there was no doubt that he'd been practicing on his own over those years away.

Even with the bumps in the road he's had, Dennis is far and away the best student I've ever had.  Especially refreshing is that he is such an exemplary person outside the dojo.

It only takes one or two like this to make up for a whole lot of the schlumps that I have to deal with.

[Wolfe]

That is one awesome testament!

I have been teaching martial arts for over 30 years, and it does help a lot of people. I have seen inner city kids and folks just like Dennis come 360 from the discipline and self respect, as well as, the respect of others that martial arts gives the student.

Wolfe

[Lark]

The student that makes me most proud was a young lady who was one of our very first Initiate's in Tangled Moon.  She was very shy and unsure of herself and kept telling me that she could NEVER do the kinds of things that I did.  And I kept telling her that yes, she could.

She left us when the Army sent her to Germany and she was still a 1st Degree when she left.  When she got to Germany there was no group on her post and the only person trying to start something up was using his supposed knowledge as a way to get bed partners.  Rabbit soon found herself with students herself and shortly had a coven of nearly 20 people she was running.  The group is still operant today even 12 years after she left.

Then she was sent to Bosnia where she started up an inter-faith group which became active in buying and planting trees to replace those destroyed during the fighting.

When she came home we made her a 2nd Degree, and then she went off to Fort Huachuca where she started yet another group.

Finally she was sent to Afganistan where again she worked hard with the local Chaplain to start up another inter-faith group which adopted a local school and was collecting school supplies to keep the children in paper, pencils, and other supplies necessary for the school to operate.

We made her a 3rd Degree when she came back from that tour.

She is not running a group right now.  She had a heart attack a few years ago and was medically retired from the Army.  But she has trained her sister in our Trad.  Her sister now has her 2nd Degree and has a large study group which will eventually be a daughter coven of Tangled Moon.

When I have a bad day with students or coveners I remember that Rabbit was also one of ours and one that we are tremendously proud of.

-Lark-

[Zenon]

a bad student should not discourage a gifted teacher.

for "if the seeker is true, even the false can teach" (says an occult writer whose name I forgot)...

80% of the job is for the students, who must figure out things on their own.  you can only pass on your own perception of things, and different people will have different approaches to the craft since the process of growing within witchcraft is so personal and intimate.  that is why we have covens, not congregations!

don't get discouraged!  you have a lot to share.

and you can't help people who will not help themselves.

[Brijrian]

and you can't help people who will not help themselves.

This is probably the most True and FRUSTRATING observation that I have ever read--and not just in reference to teachers and students!  (Ex boyfriends, coworkers, and my (unclaimed) biological mother come readily to mind...)

If only I had Red's skills...then maybe I could change their minds for them... :wink:

[Zenon]

If only I had Red's skills...then maybe I could change their minds for them... :wink:

ah yes... there's nothing more effective than sitting on people and bending their pinkies!  

but seriously... why would you want to give away your time and energy to someone who expects you to give them mere information in exchange for no effort?  someone who doesn't care to experience the work?

trust me, there are plenty of people who would KILL to study with a teacher like this.  and she even books a room to receive her students?  that's gotta mean she's special.

there are PLENTY of people who will willingly travel miles, spend all their money to study witchcraft.  take the feri trad for example...  most of the trad's teachers are in the san francisco area, and there are students who will willingly RELOCATE to there, just to be able to have one-on-one classes regularly.

people like this specific student we were talking about, don't even deserve attention.  I'm so sorry for Lark, and she has every right to rant about it.