Sex Before Marriage as a Religious View

[Sebbi]

I know this is a bit of a wierd topic for a paganism forum, seeing as the general view among pagans will tend to be quite liberal.

I also want to make it clear, I don't want to bring this up in a "lets bash Christian belief!" kind of way.

I've been thinking about this though.

Do you think that there's some milage in the idea (and if so, has it been taken out of context)?

I'm just trying to understand it (so I can best debate against it and corrupt someone I know!!! MWAHAHAHA... I'm joking [you know I'm not don't you - why did I think I'd fool you {ah, but maybe I'm double bluffing <oh god, I've run out of different brackets, I'll stop this nonsense>}]) and I thought this being a group of interesting thinking people it might not be a bad place to raise it.

Thoughts anyone?

Much Love
Sebbi

[RedRonin]

I guess my take on it would depend upon the particular religion and their reason for stating a position one way or another.

I've come to the opinion that the great majority of rules in a religion, regardless of the denomination, has more to do with controlling their membership than with any actual spiritual rationalization.

Personally, it's the business of the persons involved in the relationship and not really anyone else's.  Should they choose to accept, or not, the mores of their belief system, it's a choice they have to make.

[NachtSorcier]

I do believe that at their core, Christianity's beliefs have only its followers' best interests at heart.  Perhaps that rule is there to make sure the population doesn't go too far out of check (too late!) or to see that sexually transmitted diseases don't reach epidemic proportions (ditto!).

Personally, I believe that we all have the right to do what we want to do as long as we are not hurting or interfering with another's life.  Another problem I have with the "no sex before marriage" rule is that it is extremely homophobic in nature when coupled with the supposed (and I put a lot of emphasis on that word) "being gay is a sin" rule.  I say supposed because I really don't believe that the God of the Christians would hate his children, gay or straight.  But, the point here is that a lot of conservative Christians tout both laws, meaning that gay people are never, ever allowed to get married, and therefore must remain celibate their entire lives.  

As I am not allowed to get married, I'm pretty much obligated to "live in sin," as it were.  However, I've always been very responsible and informed when it comes to sex, and I feel that that is what matters most.  Whether one is married or not, one must be responsible and practice safer sex until they decide on a monogamous partner and get tested.

[Gryphon]

Honestly, I think before we look at the answer to this question we have to look at the history of marriage. At the root of the institution is the passage of property from one generation to the next. It is more about money and power than anything to do with sex.  
 
At some point in history, humans realized that babies came from sex. the joining of a man and a woman. Obviously once a child is born it is quite easy to identify who the mother is. They mom and baby are quite literally attached to each other.  
 
When heredity and inheritance are done through a mother's line of succession, there are no problems of deciding who are the legitimate heirs of the woman in question.  
 
Now when the lines of inheritance are done through the male instead, things get dicey. Woman had to be controlled in some way so the men were sure that the offspring were really truly theirs. So a material contract was agreed upon between a woman's father and the man he deemed worthy of inheriting his property. Now the man agreeing to this contract wanted to be sure that the woman wasn't carrying some other guy's baby at the time, hence the idea that a woman needed to be a virgin before marriage.  
 
That the patriarchal, monotheistic religions adopted this marital contract into their religion is coincidental. Since the Romans were ruling the known world at the time of the rise of Christianity, their male based line of succession and their mores regarding marriage became incorporated into the new religion's form.  
 
Not all things in the Church are static. I have an art history book with a portrait of a Pope and his grandsons. I can't recall who the Pope was at the moment, but the painting is by a famous Renaissance artist. Things as they are now can mutate and change. That is the nature of human society. When property and inheritance through the male line becomes less important, so does the stigma of "illegitimate children" and sex outside of marriage.

[TheBriarRose]

Also, I've been told, but do not have a source to quote, that in the time of Jesus' birth, premarital sex was one of the 3 ways to seal a betrothal.  It was brought up when a group at my church was discussing the literal and/or figurative "virgin birth".  It seems that its only in the "fairy tales" that Mary had to run from disgrace.  But that's a debate for another day.

And for those who don't know me, I'm not bashing Christianity cause I R 1.

[mermdotcom]

As far as Judeo-Christian beliefs are concerned, I believe Gryphon hit the target on the origins of "no pre-marital sex" (determining paternity of a child/tracing heredity), and NachtSorcier got the modern reasoning (population control/spread of STDs), plus there's the upholding of "family values" and the fact that the Bible flat-out states that it's a sin.

However, if you read Sebbi's original post, it seems he's asking what your opinion is on the subject!  So I'm going to present mine:

I have to respect those who choose to wait until marriage.  It takes a lot of willpower, especially with all the influences within peer groups and the media.  I've known people who have made the decision for religious and secular reasons, the former we've discussed, and the latter being 1. they want it to be special and with that special someone; 2. they want to avoid STDs/pregnancy; 3. that's just how they were raised, and believe it should be so, even if they're not religious.

Myself, I did not wait until marriage, and I don't see anything particularly wrong with sex outside of marriage, as long as it takes place between consenting adults and all the proper precautions are taken.  I've never given myself lightly - it's always been with someone I knew and trusted, and with the exception of one person, was in a serious relationship with.  That's just what I'm comfortable with.  However, I don't judge those who decide to have fun with their sexuality and experiment, as long as proper precautions are taken.  After all, who are we to say what should and should not go on between consenting adults?

[Still Kate]

I could spout all the moral reasons and Religious view here but I'm not.  

How would you like to end up promising to spend the rest of your life with someone who is about as adventurous as a piece of cold toast in bed  

So I'm for sex before marriage BUT I'm not saying you should road test everyone you meet and obviously becareful of STD and have some respect for your partner and more so yourself, as no one is going to marry you if you've got a bad reputation.

[Anonymous]

I think the whole idea of sex before marriage, in theory is quite a romantic idea, but it confuses me. Marriage to me aside from the legalities, represents a loving, monogamous couple that has been together for more than 3 months!! (hehe) It's natural that they will already be having sexual relations. In the majority of Hunter/Gatherer tribes, a 'marriage' is sealed simply by the woman or man (depending upon the system) moving in with the other or having this kind of relationship. This kind of question does seem based on the idea of marriage that, as mentioned, has sprung from issues about paternity that have come from patrilinial socieities. Then the question doesn't really make sense, I don't think i'm explaining this very well!!  Marriage is sex, or sex is marriage.. or something to that effect!

[Brijrian]

Obviously, beginning a sexual relationship should be something that both partners decide on, together!

When it comes to sex before marriage, I personally believe that no sex before engagement/serious committment/marriage is actually a pretty smart idea--whether you're pagan or not!

As mentioned, abstinence does do a pretty good job of preventing pregnancy and STD's!

I've also found through my own relationships that adding that sexual relationship forms yet another, deeper bond. So if a few months down the road he/she starts showing an uglier view or if things get bad, it is a LOT easier to break off an unhealthy/negative relationship if you haven't mucked your perspective with the sexual dimension.

But I also believe that it is in the best interests of all involved if you do wait to have sex until you are very committed to one another, and can support one another (financially, emotionally, etc). This way, you will get to know if you truly are compatable (in mind/opinion/religion/ect).

And you'll also gain the advantage of preventing parenthood from occurring until you are in a loving, supportive, stable relationship where you CAN welcome and support another life if you want to--or if you have to!

After all, not all pregnancies are planned--not even for married folk!! So in my opinion, it's easier if you've waited until you can support life before you start 'practicing' how to create it!

Blessings!

[mermdotcom]

And you'll also gain the advantage of preventing parenthood from occurring until you are in a loving, supportive, stable relationship where you CAN welcome and support another life if you want to--or if you have to!

After all, not all pregnancies are planned--not even for married folk!! So in my opinion, it's easier if you've waited until you can support life before you start 'practicing' how to create it!

Very well said, Brijrian! I have a friend who ended up with 2 children by two different fathers, neither of which were wanting families and therefore have nothing to do with these children.  She was on birth control for both of them, but she's apparently the most fertile person I've ever met!  While she loves her children deeply, she wishes that she'd waited until the relationships had developed more so that she had seen what type of "men" (and I use that term loosely) they really were.