Honesty

[Beith]

A few of the replies to the post on 'morality' got me thinking about the idea of honesty - some people listed this as part of thier moral code and it is an interesting one.

To borrow from the bible, 'you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free' - this seems so simple in principle, I wondered how people had experienced it in practice?  

Often it seems easier or kinder to cover up the truth, or even to fabricate something to be 'nice' to people.

Also, is it honest to state your opinion, uninvited, even when it is negative or not what somebody wants to hear?  Is your opinion 'truth'?

Where are the boundaries - if any - of honesty?  How is it defined?

Just wondered what other people thought about this !

 

[Anonymous]

I think it's hard to decide whether total honesty is better than the occasional lie to spare someone's feelings. I don't think any situation is black and white enough to apply a catch all rule to.

Mostly, for me, it's a case of not telling people things that would just cause trouble.

[Night_Raven]

The problem with the truth, is that if the truth is not what everyone wants to hear, it is shunned, called a lie, even hated.  I could give a few examples, but like I said, the truth sometimes isn't what everyone wants to hear and are more comfortable with the lie!

Personally, I think, tell the truth, cause lieing will just hurt more in the end, so get it over and done with!

[Sebbi]

I use a few boundaries but not many. Sometimes it is worth holding your tongue (e.g. if a customer is being an asshole at work), but most of the time I'm pretty no holds barred.

I think the most important thing is to be truthful to yourself; which is the hardest part. Once you can be truthful with yourself truth with others comes much more naturally.

I think truth isn't just not lying. It goes deeper than that. At the moment in drama we're doing Stanisklavski and we're constantly reminded "Don't worry if it's not neccesarily realistic, but it has to be truthful!"

Doing this sort of work is really hard work because you have to peel away lots and lots of masks that you wear and really be extremely brutally honest with yourself (doing deep muscle relaxation excercises I ended up in floods of tears and suddenly admitted many things that are wrong with my life and I'm desperate to change).

I'm always trying to achieve new levels of honesty, and it's a real journey to be as truthful as possible as much of the time.

I'm very pissed off with how fake much of the world is, and I figured - like Gandhi said "Become the change you want to see in the world"

Much Love
SEbbi

[Zenon]

the problem with the truth is that there is no absolute truth.  there is always a personal truth (valid to the person), but not an absolute truth with which to measure the personal ones.

in a universe of constant change, it only seems logical to me that "the truth" is subject to constant change.

there are only ideals.  honesty, blessed honesty, is to me the expression of a personal truth.

to know and understand another's personal truth, is what will set you free.

understanding is truth, and acceptance of multiple truths is honesty.

[Sewa Yoleme]

Also, is it honest to state your opinion, uninvited, even when it is negative or not what somebody wants to hear? Is your opinion 'truth'?

For me, the sticking point is the word "uninvited." Too many people offer their opinion willy-nilly, whether the "victim" invites them to or not. I don't think that's appropriate at all. If this is a close friend and you're seeing him slowly destroy himself, I think the closeness of the friendship gives you more license to share your "truth" than, say, telling a stranger who's eating an ice cream cone that she's fat and should eat a salad instead.

When talking to someone who has invited you to share your opinion, you can be gentle, tactful, and loving. You can couch your truth in terms that the individual can accept more fully.

And even then, no one says you have to tell ALL your truth ALL the time. We need to be led by Spirit, guided by both our best wisdom and our heart's deepest intuition. We can share one or two things, maybe, and leave the rest for another time when they can better accept them.

And the golden rule is still a good one: treat them the way you'd want to be treated. How would you feel if someone told you everything you're doing wrong, for example? How would you want to hear it? What would be the most healing approach?

Honesty means being truthful in your speech. It doesn't define how much you speak or when.

.:. Sewa Yoleme

[Anonymous]

Also, is it honest to state your opinion, uninvited, even when it is negative or not what somebody wants to hear? Is your opinion 'truth'?

For me, the sticking point is the word "uninvited." Too many people offer their opinion willy-nilly, whether the "victim" invites them to or not. I don't think that's appropriate at all. If this is a close friend and you're seeing him slowly destroy himself, I think the closeness of the friendship gives you more license to share your "truth" than, say, telling a stranger who's eating an ice cream cone that she's fat and should eat a salad instead.

When talking to someone who has invited you to share your opinion, you can be gentle, tactful, and loving. You can couch your truth in terms that the individual can accept more fully.

Very good points.

And even then, no one says you have to tell ALL your truth ALL the time. We need to be led by Spirit, guided by both our best wisdom and our heart's deepest intuition. We can share one or two things, maybe, and leave the rest for another time when they can better accept them.

And the golden rule is still a good one: treat them the way you'd want to be treated. How would you feel if someone told you everything you're doing wrong, for example? How would you want to hear it? What would be the most healing approach?

Honesty means being truthful in your speech. It doesn't define how much you speak or when.

Also good points.

This bit isn't necessarily in response to Sewa.

I still think that there can be no absolute rules for things like this. Here's a scenario, and a question.

Someone you know is ugly, and they have low self-esteem. They ask you if you think they're ugly. What do you say?

[Gryphon]

Someone you know is ugly, and they have low self-esteem. They ask you if you think they're ugly. What do you say?

Telling someone your truth doesn't have to focus on a negative. Even an "ugly" person can have beautiful features. Ugly is defined by the culture one lives in. When placed in this type of situation look for the things you can praise. The person's eyes, teeth, skin, hair anything you find to be beautiful about that person. If this person is a friend, there must be a reason you choose to associate with them. Telling the "truth" should not cause harm.

[Sewa Yoleme]

Someone you know is ugly, and they have low self-esteem. They ask you if you think they're ugly. What do you say?

I'd say, "My friend, neither of us would qualify as models, would we! Then again, very, very few people in this world do. But frankly, I think you're valuing the wrong thing. Physical appearance shouldn't be the source of your self-esteem. That should be based on how much you care for others, and what actions you take in this world.

"People judge one another for the silliest things--how they look, what clothes they wear, what they believe, who they vote for, how big their house is. What we should be judging one another on is our capacity for love, and our ability to treat others with kindness. And my friend, if those are the criteria, then you should have the highest self-esteem in the world!"

There's a verse in the Hebrew scriptures I've always liked: "What does Yahweh require of you, except to act justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God?" I think the same truth is present in nearly every spiritual tradition, and should be the only basis for one's self-esteem.

.:. Sewa Yoleme

[Zenon]

Telling someone your truth doesn't have to focus on a negative. Even an "ugly" person can have beautiful features. Ugly is defined by the culture one lives in. When placed in this type of situation look for the things you can praise. The person's eyes, teeth, skin, hair anything you find to be beautiful about that person. If this person is a friend, there must be a reason you choose to associate with them. Telling the "truth" should not cause harm.

well yes exactly  

[Sebbi]

Someone you know is ugly, and they have low self-esteem. They ask you if you think they're ugly. What do you say?

I really hate that situation!

I normally say that, though I personally don't find them attractive personally that's not to say that they're in any way ugly. Sometimes I challenge them as to why they're asking or what they want me to say.

The response I get to the latter is generally better accepted in a sort of "Why do you have to be right?" sort of way as opposed to the "You're just sugar-coating the fact that you think I'm ugly!" sort of way the former gets.

I guess, in truth becomes purer when it's heard by the listener. If you attempt to be honest abbrasively then it's often not heard and therefore your efforts have been useless. This said, it depends on what situation you're in - sometimes it's better to be hard on people, because it's the only way to burst their bubbles.

Much Love
Sebbi

[Anonymous]

There were some good responses to that. I basically brought it up because it's easy to deal with honesty in an abstract way, but when it's actually applied to a situation, you have to think about it more carefully.

I'm not a big fan of absolutist morality.

[Beith]

To the question 'Am I ugly'

Well, that's easy - the Goddess doesn't make ugly people, if I think somebody is ugly that's in my own mind, not the truth.

In my personal experience over the past few years, I have really learnt the value of honesty, but it is still not easy at all!