Right Beliefs vs Right Actions

[Lark]

In your religion, do actions or beliefs count for more?

Some people, for example, think that it's more important to get their creed right, and not so much the outward observances. Whereas for other people it's the rituals, offerings, prayers, etc. which are more important than the underlying faith.

Which do you think should count for more, if at all?

-Lark-

[TheBriarRose]

Wow, that's a tough one.  It's hard to speak for one's entire religion.  And in some religions, it's even further divided into sects or denominations...

I would say that works are supposed to be more important, as in works of charity and love..not the 'works' of ritual.  We do the rituals because we feel it brings us closer to our diety and to each other, but it's not required or a necessity.  More of a comfort or a tool.

[Gryphon]

I am firmly of the belief that one's actions should follow from one's beliefs. "Walk your talk" in other words.

So, just doing a ritual for the sake of ritual is in my eyes, equal to putting on a show or play. Some shows are better than others, but they are all make-believe.

Just the same, if someone professes to believe in certain ideals but doesn't follow through with them in their everyday life, that is just as meaningless in the long run.

I think one must have a balance of both action and belief in their lives.

[Sewa Yoleme]

Creed doesn't matter to me, because my beliefs change over time as my understanding of the universe and myself deepen and grow. A creed is only useful as an articulation of who and where I am right now, and not who or where I'll be tomorrow.

Outward observance doesn't matter to me, except in the sense that badly executed rituals are boring at best and spiritually disruptive at worst, and well-written and well-performed ceremonies can be a doorway into one's experience of the divine. But does it "matter" in the larger sense if you do x instead of y, or do nothing at all? No; the only thing that matters is the heart.

"Voici mon secret. Il est très simple: on ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. L'essential est invisible pour les yeux." That is, "Here is my secret. It's very simple: you can't see properly except with the heart. What is essential is invisible to the eyes." --Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, Le Petit Prince

That said, I think one's actions in the world not only speak louder than one's words, they also reveal one's essential beliefs. Let's say you believe that one political candidate is bad and another good, but you never get out and vote. Do your beliefs really mean anything?

Or to borrow a Christian analogy, "What good is it to profess faith without practicing it? Let's say you meet somone in need of clothes with no food to live on, and one of you says, 'Goodbye and good luck. Stay warm and well-fed,' without giving them the bare necessities of life, what good is it? So it is with faith. If good deeds don’t go with it, faith is dead."

.:. Sewa Yoleme

[NachtSorcier]

Personally, the inner works are more important than the outer works.    If I were to just go through the movements of a ritual or simply recite the words of a prayer without understanding the meaning of the movements or words and letting them move my soul, then they mean nothing.

In that same light, I think we've all known or known of Christians who say that they believe in God's teachings, but then at the same time do things that Christianity forbids.  They to go church but they don't pay attention, they gamble, have premarital sex, and what have you.

And there are the fluff-bunny "Wiccans" who, for example, tout that they're not going to hell because "we don't believe in hell," but at the same time someone of a non-Wiccan religion will "get zapped by the Law of Three."  That sounds a bit like the opposite of the "follow your own path" philosophy to me.

The underlying theme here is honesty with oneself.  If you take the time to look inside and discover what it is you really believe, allow yourself to continally learn and evolve, and practice what you preach, we'll all be better off.

[Zenon]

I think action should be the manifestation of beliefs.  But then non-action must not mean non-belief... it's just that action is the confirmation of belief.  I would not do anything if I did not believe in what I was doing.  At the least, I believe that I am doing it.  If I believe so, and perform the action, the belief materializes.  In such ways do simple ideas take material form, as symbols in everyday life.

The question of morals is set completely apart.  Morals are maybe more than belief but standards for community and living.  If you hold morals as "truth" but you fail to live by them, then you are being hypocritical to your self.

Good deeds and altruism to me are not morals.  They are essential to survival within a human societal context, in more of an ecological sense.

If you are completely individualistic and hostile/indifferent to your surroundings, or if you are cruel to your surroundings and neighbors, then live a completely miserable life or die.

As a race we are here to combat misery... if you need a reason to help the person next to you there is no better reason than helping yourself live in a better place.

Law of Three, Satan or whatever, they will be there anyway and you will find them if you don't recognize their presence.  You will find them in the Bible, your meditations, or in the DSM-IV.

[Sebbi]

Action - any day.

I don't believe in it, but if there was a heaven and hell and a "right" set of beliefs then I've always thought:

A believer who lives badly will go to hell and a non-believer who lives right will go to heaven.

I have a friend who's an atheist and just lives the most admirable life and it made me think - if there's a heaven, she's going there, screw what anyone else says!

Much Love
Sebbi

[Ara]

I think that one's actions come from one's beliefs.  

I mean, if I believe that violence is wrong, I'm not going to go and launch a bomb off of a building.  

Wow, that was a bad example, but you catch my drift.


ALways~
Ara

[Fillionous]

You act on what you believe...

For myself, in my heart, it is the underlying beliefs that are important. My ability to look in the mirror and be happy with, even proud of, the person looking back. But as part of that, I demonstrate my beliefs in the way that I live. This might be ritual, prayer or magic... but is more likley to be acts towards people and places I find myself with. Simple acts of kindness, a smile, an offer of help, politness and so forth. What to me are right actions.

As otheres have commented, the reality is that the two are fundimentally intwined... one without the other is either hypocritical or hollow.

BE bright, be bold
Fillionous

[Anonymous]

It depends on which actions you're talking about. The majority of responses seem to focus on actions in general. I actually picked you up as meaning religious practices. I'll cover both.

I think it's important to act in a way that fits your beliefs. For example, to me it doesn't make sense for someone to say they believe killing is intrinsically wrong, but to go around killing people.

On the issue of religious practices, I don't think that there have to be any religious practices beyond living ones life according to ones beliefs. There are some things that I personally feel compelled to do in order to express my religion, but it wouldn't change my beliefs if I didn't do these things.