The Process Behind Magic

[Anonymous]

From my own experience, I know which techniques work best for me in order to perform magic, and I know how the result will usually manifest. The middle bit, the actual process, isn't so straight forward.

I've seen a lot of descriptions of what magic is, and I've even put forward my own theories. The problem is, these descriptions are usually very basic, eg. 'the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will.' and 'The directing of energy towards a goal'. The question these descriptions don't answer is how the change occurs.

I was recently reading different websites, and I came across one where it said that magic occurs on the sub-atomic level, and went into details about how particles transfer information about their state to other particles. It was intriguing, but it didn't really feel right to me.

Anyway, after that long winded explanation, here's a question. Do you have a view of the process behind magic, and if so, what? I have my own theories that make sense to me, but I was wondering if anyone else has their own ideas.

[NachtSorcier]

I think it's safe to say that nobody really knows.  I don't know exactly how it works, but I know it does.  I know that sounds foolish, but that's the best answer I can give.

[Sewa Yoleme]

Do you have a view of the process behind magic, and if so, what? I have my own theories that make sense to me, but I was wondering if anyone else has their own ideas.

If you haven't done so already, be sure to read Real Magic by Isaac Bonewits. It's the most amazing treatise on how magic works, approaching the subject from many different traditions to see what the underlying active process is.

.:. Sewa Yoleme

[Anonymous]

I've actually considered buying that before, however, my budget won't allow it at the moment.

[Sebbi]

The more I think about it the more I come to the opinion that magic isn't something it is possible to define or pin down.

There are many things that I consider magical, but I can never pin down what exactly it is that's so magic about them. For me, experiencing a strong connection with someone or a group of people (e.g. an audience) is magic. Grieving a loss you experienced for the first time and having that weight finally off your shoulders is magic. Passion is magic. Achieving something after having worked for it for a long time is magic.

Because magic is not just the ethereal, it's also the mundane.

Show it to me and I'll recognise it but I won't be able to tell you what it is.

Much Love
Sebbi

[Anonymous]

The more I think about it the more I come to the opinion that magic isn't something it is possible to define or pin down.

I can never accept that something is beyond explanation, only that, perhaps, we're unable to explain it now.

There are many things that I consider magical, but I can never pin down what exactly it is that's so magic about them. For me, experiencing a strong connection with someone or a group of people (e.g. an audience) is magic. Grieving a loss you experienced for the first time and having that weight finally off your shoulders is magic. Passion is magic. Achieving something after having worked for it for a long time is magic.

That wouldn't fit my definition, but your view is as valid as mine.

Because magic is not just the ethereal, it's also the mundane.

I'd agree there, but I probably see it in a different way.

I suppose, before you can say how something works, you have to be able to define it.

[Brijrian]

I particularly love the way Phyllis Curott describes magic in her book, "Witch Crafting" (p.29)

"Magic is what happens when you have encountered the Divine...Making magic is a dynamic process by which you co-create reality with diety. And ultimately, all real magic is a manifestation of the Divine."

On p.34 she discusses the fact that when you look at things on the quantum level, energy and matter are not easily divided, and no particle has any particular property until you measure it--it doesn't even become a particle until you measure it as a particle. And as a result of this it can be seen that, "reality shifts according to your perception, participation, and expectation. It fits with our magical principle that we can alter our consciousness, and thereby alter reality. It also implies that we have the profound ability to interact with material objects." Make magic.

This idea really resonates for me, as I come from more of a science and math background.

[Anonymous]

Quantum physics has never sounded logical to me.

I was watching a TV programme the other day, and they were talking about how a particle has no properties until measured. They also said that particles are created in pairs, and the pairs are always opposite.

They discussed an experiment where two particles were created simulaniously, then sent to opposite sides of a city via phone cables. Each particle was observed at the same time, and they found that, despite the distance, the two particles were assigned opposite charges. This suggested that there was some undetectable connection between the two particles.

Anyway, to me it's quite a lot to get my head around.

The idea that a particle isn't assigned properties until it is observed is illogical and impossible to prove. It's the same as saying the Universe is infinite (which you can't disprove until you find the edge, but can't prove because it's always possible you haven't yet reached the edge).

To know if a particle has properties, it has to be observed, so you could never check to see if a particle has no properties. This to me, make the theory both impossible to prove, but quite a large leap in faith. It just don't make sense to me.

Maybe I haven't even grasped this concept correctly.

[Sebbi]

I think if we really closely cross-examined our views of magic, they probably wouldn't be completely mutually exclusive. It's that we focus on different aspects of it.

You focus more on high-magic, I don't etc.

And in response to the Quantum post; I don't think you have grasped the thoery properly. Then again, it's said if you can say you understand quantum, you're lying.

But having down some higher level physics now, there is a good explaination; it's just that it's very difficult to understand that the popular-science journalists don't bother with it.

Quantum physics is highly romanticised, and when it boils down to it, it's a very legitamate side of physics where some really strange stuff happens.

Much Love
Sebbi

[Anonymous]

I think if we really closely cross-examined our views of magic, they probably wouldn't be completely mutually exclusive. It's that we focus on different aspects of it.

You focus more on high-magic, I don't etc.

I don't see how my view is to do with high magic. I just define magic as a specific act (in simplistic terms, directing life energy towards a goal), whereas you see it as several different things.

And in response to the Quantum post; I don't think you have grasped the thoery properly. Then again, it's said if you can say you understand quantum, you're lying.

Which part haven't I grasped? I thought there was a good chance I'd misunderstand it.

[Brijrian]

From what I gather, they can prove that the particle has no properties until it is measured--they do this using mathematics.

They then do every experiment that they can to prove it wrong or otherwise if possible.

[Anonymous]

From what I gather, they can prove that the particle has no properties until it is measured--they do this using mathematics.

They then do every experiment that they can to prove it wrong or otherwise if possible.

Maybe I'm just limited, but I can't see how they could prove something without being able to physically prove it. I understand that they can be led to a conclusion based on other evidence, but I'd have to see the evidence for myself (and be able to understand it) to share that belief.

[Anonymous]

Oooh, I've stumbled into some funness here.  :twisted:

I have quite a few theories on the process of magic. I do agree with Sebbi on his about "show it to me and I'll recognize it". Excuse my plato-ness, but I've always thought of magic as another "form", something that cannot be defined by itself, but rather through other things. We cant define what is magic, just like we cant define what beautiful is, its something innate that we all recognize, all have our own classifications and examples of that hole one thing in common--they contain magic itself, a glimpse of what magic really is though something we can understand.

I myself, have always viewed the process of magic as simply a transformation of energy from one form to another. (yes, now I'm Tzu-esque.  :wink: ). Everything is energy at the core, flowing energy, and we are all the same energy, just different "stages" of it, different forms of it. when we cast a spell, we make a union of our thoughts, willpower, and a certain amount of tangible energy to be directed into the outcome of our intentions. Yes, I know, the same definition we;ve all heard, right? well, thats just it. i see it all as a transformation of energy. the future of our direct universe is still a malleable chunk of energy. by doing magic, we shape a certain portion of that energy, turning it more like one set of potential universes than other sets. so, its like merging quantum physics with tzu-ist thinking.

[Sewa Yoleme]

I think this article may help:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave-particle_duality

.:. Sewa Yoleme

[Jennie]

Perhaps thinking of it this way will help. ( and perhaps not)The ground matrix of the universe is a field of probabilities. Some events, states, outcomes are far more likely than others, but there is uncertainty inherent in the system. All manifest phenomena are simply the standing waves in the probability field of the universe. Conciousness, intent, the act of interacting, measuring, or observing, collapses or crystallizes the probability field into a fixed state - it creates a node or standing wave. Once you have measured, observed, or otherwise interacted with the field in this way, you can't then un-interact with it - you have fixed the properties. Prior to collapsing the field, the outcome is uncertain  - the properties and the form of the standing wave are still indeterminate. This is, in my opinion, one of the reasons that magic works. You can, through focused concious intent, influence the way in which the standing wave manifests.