[OT] Gay marriage

[mermdotcom]

I know we try to stay on topic, but I also know that this is the most open-minded group that I've ever been a part of, so I figured this would be a good place to ask.

I have a good friend who just bought a cute little house with his partner (YAY! I'm so proud of them!), and they are now seriously discussing marriage.  The problem is, they are gay and we live in Texas.  (For those of you not familiar with the different cultures of American states, Texas is one of the least tolerant of the 50)

In which states is gay marriage currently legal?  I know they'd like to get married close to Texas, but being in the good ol' South, I doubt it will be possible.  So my next question is, what kind of ceremony or celebration could we have for them here in town?  They want their family and friends to be involved, but it would be too expensive to get everyone to a "legal" state.  It wouldn't be a Pagan event, but I know a number of members here are gay or have friends who are.

Have any of you had or attended some sort of reception or ring exchanging event when you couldn't have the real thing locally?  Any ideas would be appreciated!

~Meredith

[NachtSorcier]

Massachusettes is the only state that will legally marry a same-sex couple, and if I remember correctly, only residents of the state can buy a marriage license, ie, you cannot go to Massachusettes from your homestate, get married there, and go home.  So I'm sorry to say that your friends will have to have an illegal ceremony.  And since you all live in Texas, I would recommend having it indoors, for fear of snipers and violent protestors (I'm not kidding).

[Lark]

Unfortunately gay marriages are not legal in any State.  

The only State that recognizes civil unions between same-sex couples as being legal is Massachusetts, and that ruling is currently under hot debate and may change.  And, since it is a civil union and not a marriage, that union is only recognized in Massachusetts and it could and would be ignored in Texas as having any legal basis.

Your friends could certainly have some form of ceremony to celebrate their commitment to each other, exchange vows, or whatever makes the event special for them.  But it will not be a legally binding ceremony nor confer any legally reconized spousal rights on the participants.

**Sigh**  Perhaps one of these days!

-Lark-

[Sewa Yoleme]

Unfortunately gay marriages are not legal in any State.  

The only State that recognizes civil unions between same-sex couples as being legal is Massachusetts, and that ruling is currently under hot debate and may change.  And, since it is a civil union and not a marriage, that union is only recognized in Massachusetts and it could and would be ignored in Texas as having any legal basis.

Not quite. Marriage between same-sex couples is legal in Massachusetts.

Marriage is defined as the union of one man and one woman in at least 41 states. Of these, two also allow for domestic partnerships. Currently, 19 states have added defense of marriage amendments to their constitutions. Massachusetts is the only state that recognizes same-sex marriages, and a total of seven others (plus D.C.) recognize same-sex civil unions or domestic partnerships.

All 19 constitutional amendments were passed by popular referendum. Of the eight states that currently recognize any form of same-sex union, two were forced to do so by court order, and six did so legislatively.

There are at least seven pending lawsuits seeking legal recognition for same-sex marriages, and at least seven upcoming referenda on constitutional amendments barring such recognition. Twenty states have adopted non-binding resolutions urging the Congress to pass a Federal Marriage Amendment.

More at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_laws_on_same-sex_unions

.:. Sewa Yoleme

[Anonymous]

try looking into the laws in the UK.... my brother married his lover there. I will try to ask him about it but it maybe a few days before I can fine anything out...
I will keep your friends in my thoughts. I just love to see two people in love....


Metopo

[Sewa Yoleme]

try looking into the laws in the UK.... my brother married his lover there. I will try to ask him about it but it maybe a few days before I can fine anything out...

At present, same-sex marriages are recognized in the Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, and Canada, with South Africa's (!) recognition going into effect at the end of this year.

Civil unions, domestic partnerships, and other legal recognitions of same-sex couples (which offer varying amounts of the benefits of marriage) are available in Andorra, Argentina, Brazil, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Iceland, Israel, Luxembourg, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, Slovenia, Switzerland, and the United Kingdom, as well as several Australian states and territories. The first same-sex union in modern history with government recognition was obtained in Denmark in 1989.

And yet we call ourselves the leaders of the free world.

.:. Sewa Yoleme

[Anonymous]

Same sex marriages are legal in the UK and many have been performed here.    However, there is going to be a lot of red tape as neither of your friends are British Citizens.    

They are going to have to get a licence from the U.S then appear in person at a registry office here in the U.K with proof if I.D including photographs, proof of their address in the U.S with at least 3 domestic bills in both their names.   They will also need to contact our home office and the American Embassy to get permission.  There is also a waiting time as the 'Bands' have to be posted publically.  And they will have to get married at a place that has a licence to hold or perform marriages.    They have to appear in person first off to arrange it as the registra will ask lots of questions to make sure it is not a marriage of convienience. They do that with all couples not just same sex or foreign couples.

Hope this helps.    Good luck to them both.

[Anonymous]

Well, it's technically not classed as marriage here in the UK, but still, it's close enough. I personally see legal marriage as unneccessary. I don't see why one should have to have the permission of the state to be recognised as a couple. It can, however, make it easier to separate property after a break up if the people are married, and things can be identified as marital property or just one person's property.

In any case, the only reason I've considered a legal marriage for myself (in the future) is because my girlfriend is American, and would therefore need to be married to me in order to stay in the country, otherwise I'd prefer to just have a marriage ceremony.

[NachtSorcier]

I don't see why one should have to have the permission of the state to be recognised as a couple. It can, however, make it easier to separate property after a break up if the people are married, and things can be identified as marital property or just one person's property.

Because we can't get married, we don't get the same benefits that married straight couples do.  If my partner had to move across the country for business, I'd have to just quit my job to go with him and not be reimbursed for it.  If he were in the hospital with a serious illness, I wouldn't be allowed to make decisions for him, even though he's made it clear that he wants me to be in charge of such things.  I wouldn't be able to make sure his wishes are granted after he dies, so his family could just swoop in and perform some sort of service he never even wanted.  He wants to be creamated, but his family will have say and could bury him against his will.  It's difficult for same-sex couples to make such decisions as joint-bank accounts, adopting children, all kinds of tax issues.  The list goes on.

[Sewa Yoleme]

Because we can't get married, we don't get the same benefits that married straight couples do.  If my partner had to move across the country for business, I'd have to just quit my job to go with him and not be reimbursed for it.  If he were in the hospital with a serious illness, I wouldn't be allowed to make decisions for him, even though he's made it clear that he wants me to be in charge of such things.  I wouldn't be able to make sure his wishes are granted after he dies, so his family could just swoop in and perform some sort of service he never even wanted.  He wants to be creamated, but his family will have say and could bury him against his will.  It's difficult for same-sex couples to make such decisions as joint-bank accounts, adopting children, all kinds of tax issues.  The list goes on.

Here is an excellent chart that lists the rights of marriage, the differences between those rights and those offered by civil unions, and the drawbacks to being in a relationship without the benefit of either system. The chart is in PDF format.

.:. Sewa Yoleme

[Anonymous]

I didn't consider those points. Anyway, I was thinking in a strictly anti-establishment mode. I, in general, don't see why a lot of things have to be run by the government first, and that's the train of thought I was on.

Your arguments do make sense, and I do sympathisewith your situation, and agree that you should be allowed equal rights. No one should be allowed to, in anyway, invalidate the love and commitment, you and your partner share.

[Zenon]

You can travel to a country like Argentina, where gay marriage is legal...  I don't know if they will validate the marriage elsewhere though.

[NachtSorcier]

You can travel to a country like Argentina, where gay marriage is legal...  I don't know if they will validate the marriage elsewhere though.

They wouldn't.  Like if we went to Canada and got married, customs wouldn't recognize it when we crossed back into the US.

[Brijrian]

If he were in the hospital with a serious illness, I wouldn't be allowed to make decisions for him, even though he's made it clear that he wants me to be in charge of such things. I wouldn't be able to make sure his wishes are granted after he dies, so his family could just swoop in and perform some sort of service he never even wanted. He wants to be creamated, but his family will have say and could bury him against his will. It's difficult for same-sex couples to make such decisions as joint-bank accounts, adopting children, all kinds of tax issues.

I personally think that it's rediculous to consider same-sex unions "against nature" or some such thing, because it certainly does happen in the "natural" world. Love is love. I wish everyone was blessed (well, should they want it!) with the kind of love that I have seen between two people, same sex or not!

A question for you: Is it possible then to create a living will between you two which would legally empower you to make such decisions for each other? I would think that if there is a legal document witnessed and signed specifically detailing that sort of thing that you would be able to. Is that possible?

[NachtSorcier]

A question for you: Is it possible then to create a living will between you two which would legally empower you to make such decisions for each other? I would think that if there is a legal document witnessed and signed specifically detailing that sort of thing that you would be able to. Is that possible?

Actually, yes.  There are documents you can sign that give whomever you want power of attourney should something happen.  They have to be signed and notorized.  We've just completed those documents, so if something happens to him, I make the decisions.