Another post about the Rede - guidelines or an obligation?

[Sebbi]

As many know, over the last couple of years my spiritual path has been mainly (though not solely) based on Alchemy. One thing that keep cropping up in Alchemy is that it keeps on saying that one of the most important things you can do, is doing what you want, despite that this may mean taking more risks than you would otherwise and that you'd lead a less... stable lifestyle etc.

In doing this you lead a more fulfilling life and this is contagious. By fulfilling your dreams you are fulfilling your "master work" which is what the Philosopher's stone is a metaphor for.

Anyways - with all this in mind, I started to see the Rede as picking up another interpretation.

Instead of it being "lead a free but harmless life" the "Do what you will" part becomes not a suggestion but more of a spiritual obligation.

I'm not saying I think this is the "correct" interpretation, just an alternative one from what people's focus on it tends to be.

What does anyone make of this?

Much Love and Cookies
Sebbi

[Lark]

First of all, I think it is important to stress that the Rede applies only to Wiccans.  There is sometimes a misconception that it applies more generally across Paganism, and that causes difficulties when someone who believes that encounters someone who says they don't follow the Rede.  The immediate assumption is that that person is not an ethical person..and that isn't necessarily the case.

Secondly it is important to remember that the Wiccan Rede is more than just the two lines that everyone quotes.  It first appears in the magazine "Green Egg" in the 1970's and was not part of original Wiccan belief and practice.

The word "Rede" literally means "advice" or "counsel".  And that is what it is supposed to be.  And here's another place where people get into trouble.  The most common misinterpretation of the Rede is that it is a law that says that we cannot cause any harm in our lives.  This is of course rather silly, since we can't exist without harming something.  People get all twisted up worrying about what sort of cosmic trouble they're in because they stepped on a bug.

The Rede does not say we cannot harm.  What it says is that any action which does not cause harm we are free to do.  It is silent on the subject of those actions which might cause harm.  Wicca believes that we are our own best moral compass.  We must think about our choices of action and try to pick the most ethical one in any given situation.

One of the things that Gardner and others who first started Wicca wanted to do was to avoid the dogma of rules and laws.  They believed that each Witch was their best moral compass and could chose best what was a right course of action.  

-Lark-

[Zenon]

the rede is more like advice than a dogma.  you can't live without harming.  I think it advises you not to destroy the natural balance and flow of things.

I like the law of thelema: "do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law. love is the law, love under will" -  and this explanation: http://www.annwnscauldron.com/temple/lessons/eathelema.html

[Sebbi]

While I agree with most of what you said, your focus is where most people's tends to be:

the "an thou harm none" part.

I'm was refering more to the "do what thou will" part.

Maybe obligation isn't the right word of for it, *digs out thesaurus*... responsibility is more like it.

Anyway - I'll restate my question more simply: Do you think we have a responsibility and not just a suggestion, not just to minimise the harm we cause, but to do what we wilst!

(excuse my bad ye olde english grammar).

Much Love
Sebbi

[danae]

Of course we have a responsibility.  Whether we cause harm or not, intentionally or not, we are responsible for ALL of our actions and thoughts.  

Most religions - whether it's Christianity, Buddhism, Shinto, Wicca, whatever - have some version of the 'Golden Rule' that they believe they should live by.  

To me, the Rede is kind of like a "blueprint" of Wicca - 'live an' let live, fairly take an' fairly give.'  To me, that line is just as important as the 'an' it harm none, do what ye will' part.  Let's face it, if we seriously took the 'harm none' part literally, we'd be afraid to do ANYTHING!  Also, things that may be considered 'harm' to one person are not the same things that may be considered 'harm' to someone else.  For example, I don't particularly like mice.  If I find one, I'll do my best to capture it and let it go outside.  However, a scientist may think nothing of trying out experimental drugs and such on a lab mouse, which may or may not harm the mouse.

Part of Wicca is taking responsibility for our actions.  So again, yes, we are responsible.  We owe it to ourselves, each other, the Elements, the god/desses, and every living thing to take that responsibility and own up to it.

[Zenon]

Do What Thou Wilt:  It means to do your True Will, to listen to your True Self.  The True Will is the expression of the Divine in oneself, the itty-bitty spark of divinity we all have that we have to awaken.  In a sense, everything would be perfect in this world if everyone acted according to their True Will.

[Anonymous]

Hello all.  First post here.  

In order to comment on the Rede and advice vs. obligation, I have to make a point about “will”, and to make that point I have to comment on psychology/spirituality.  Bear with me, there really is a point, I promise.  I'll try to be direct and to the point...

I believe that the will of a healthy and balanced person tends to be that of balance, progress, growth; basically a positive nature.  (I believe that psychology and spirituality are, how do I say this, related.  Not the same thing, but are connected.  [Jung's Anima/Animus concept and how it relates to the psyche as well as religion is a good example] Even if the psychology aspect isn't specifically Wiccan, it is still an important aspect of humanity, and I believe a balance between the spiritual and the mundane are important.)  So, I believe in order to be truly healthy spiritually, one must also be healthy psychologically.  That being said, a person who is mentally and spiritually healthy tends to have better things to do than being destructive, that is baring any extreme circumstance like having to defend himself. So, the will, I believe in a healthy person, tends towards this positive side.  (Not in a fluffy, sugar coated sense, but in a true sense.)  So, if one is healthy (spiritually/mentally) then the will is what the will is supposed to be, and therefore the Rede would be something that one in this state would naturally accept and adhere to.  Although, technically it is “advice,” I also look at it as being a natural desire of the will, so although I wouldn't say one would be obligated to follow it, but would be compelled to follow it by the will.

[Rowan CedarWolf]

Plankton,
You thoughts on this are quite interesting, I have never heard or seen it described this way. thank you for the food for thought.

[Anonymous]

Thanks,

I've been thinking about that a lot lately, a connection between psychology and spirituality and how it affects things.

[Sebbi]

What you are saying is interesting but I don't think I've taken it in completely.

Are you agreeing with the "Do What Thou Wilt: It means to do your True Will, to listen to your True Self. The True Will is the expression of the Divine in oneself, the itty-bitty spark of divinity we all have that we have to awaken. In a sense, everything would be perfect in this world if everyone acted according to their True Will." sentiment or not, it's hard to tell.

Much Love
Sebbi

[Anonymous]

Actually, I must point out that I should have replied to the original post rather than the most recent...  (This forum is set up a little different than I'm used to, so I kind of clicked on the wrong button... sorry for the confusion)

Although, I do agree with that to a degree.  I believe that, at least for the most part (there can always be an exception to any rule), that "Do what thou wilt" would apply to one's true will.  (I figure the goal of an ideology or philosophy is the ideal)  I also really think that for one to get to one's own true will takes being spiritually and psychologically sound.  (at least as much as anyone can be)  Although, I don't know if the world would be perfect.  Even the most sound mind is capable of mistakes and less than perfect judgment, plus there's the whole reality thing where things don't always work out the way we'd like.

But I'd have to say a agree more than disagree.