A question about the Celtic Elements

[Lark]

Hmm, and one difference that I note between the way that the Celtic recons and the Druids view the Elemental representations and the way that Wiccans view them.

In Druidic practice the representations of the three Elements of Fire, Water, and Earth...the Flame, the Well, and the Stang (Tree) are also considered to be doorways (or portals) between the worlds.  In Welsh myth, the three worlds were known as Gwynvyd (The Upperworld), Abred (This World, or the MiddleWorld), and Annwn (the Underworld).  Through the Flame, the Well, and the Stang one can travel at will between the worlds to learn the lessons that are taught there.  

-Lark-

[Anonymous]

one other thing i didnt mention before in my last post.

As Blayze breifly mentioned, the Treasures of the Tuatha do have minor elemental correlations.

the Cauldron  and stone are pretty self explaining as they are used in a similar way as they are in Wicca.  the sword and spear are a little different but the one i think is most important here is the spear.

The spear is commonly known as 'the Flaming Spear of Lugh" which shows a connection to Fire.  but this is different to the Fire that is watched over by Brighid as this is more the fires of conflict.  the spear represents the fires in its destructive form and even though many people today try to move away from destructive ideas, the Celts didnt.  it is an aspect which we must embrace in order to learn from hardships.

it really is the spear associated with war, but from all this destruction comes growth and as such is something that should be acknowledged if we are to be true to our own natures.  it is by harnessing this destructive side of ourselves and our world that we can become aware of the realities of life and be able to push through the problems.

i am starting to rave so i will stop there for now, i hope i made sense.

Mac Sionnach

[Blayze]

Hi Lark,

Interesting about the doorways, something I knew but hadn't really thought about. My brain has now entered creative mode and your post is in sync with some gateway rituals I have been writing.

I utilise elemental doorways and gateways when working with hermetics and the tattwas. I also work with gateways with the Oghams.

Hmm, lots of stuff to think about.

Bright blessings
Blayze

[Lark]

Hi Blayze,

Speaking of doorways and portals....one of the members of my up-line has developed a method which combines the Tarot with the Qaballah to do what he calls "Sphere Walking".  He uses the appropriate card(s) for the particular path(s) that he wants to journey on to reach any of the Sephiroth.  One "steps" through the card as if it were a portal, then walks the path or paths to the Sephiroth of choice.

He has done this for my group as a guided meditation twice now, and the results have been amazing.  But it does take a lot of preparation AND the group has to be familiar with what they are doing for it to work as it should.

-Lark-

[Sebbi]

I have only just dipped into this discussion in terms of following it and wished I had got involved earlier.

I've noticed there isn't a clear defination of "Celtic" going on and quite a few different variations seem to be used.

I know I'm far from an expert but I would question the view that Celtic cosmology was a single, coherant set of beliefs, elements, pantheons, etc.

From my understanding of it, the Celts were very much a race (speaking genetically here) based in and around Britain and reached their dominance before the romans arrived.

Nothing with that, for me, suggests a single belief structure.

I'm sure that each belief structure cited so far has its historical backing as having existed in it's own right, but to say that all of the celtic world revered, for example, Brigid seems absurb.

The Welsh, Scots, Irish, Bretons and English are all very different cultures in their own way, and I'm sure this isn't something so new.

I know this isn't actually directly relevant to the original discussion but it seemed worth pointing out.

Much Love
Sebbi

[Anonymous]

Sebbi,

the celts were actually labeled as such because of their linguistic similarities.  you are right though there was not one single Celtic "Rule"  however; All over the Celtic lands that were guided by the wisdom of Druids would have had a similar outline as they (the Druids) were all taught the same way.  the main differences would have been mostly linguistic and climatic.

it is an unfortunate situation that much of the Celtic beleifs have been lost to us but Celtism has evolved with the times and "Celtic" is no longer a linguistic description but has now changed to mean a genetic and even spiritual heritage.

Most of what we now about the Celts spirituality is based on the stories from Ireland and Wales.  it is the messages that are found within which gives us the types of Celtic spirituality that we use today as well as the words of the Roman writers and the educated guesses of todays Archeologists, as such we can only assume that the beliefs and practices were only mildly different from tribe to tribe, just as it is in todays world (No 2 celtic Groups will do the exact same thing).

Even though the tribes were not united as a common body, there are many things that would indicate that there most definatley was a structure of some sort. for instance, there were rules of hospitality that each tribe and family had to uphold even if it was a visitor from a warring tribe.  If the Tribes were so different from each other then the acts of hospitality would not have existed outside of ones own tribe, but since it was a social structure it was almost an executable crime (had it been a Druid at least) had the rites of hospitality not been afforded to the guest (this just one example, i can give more if requested).

I'm sure that each belief structure cited so far has its historical backing as having existed in it's own right, but to say that all of the celtic world revered, for example, Brigid seems absurb.

as for your comments about Brighid,  there is plenty of evidence to say that Brighid was worshipped in EVERY Celtic speaking country.  known by names with slight variances and given slightly varying attributes (as was necessary to those particular tribes).  her name has been given to many places throughout the western end of Europe and was so highly honoured in Ireland that she was transformed into a saint.  Bride, Brigantia, Brigid, Brigindu, Brid, Brig, Brigindo are just a few of the names this Goddess known by.

so....it is my opinion that the idea isnt as absurd as you think.

i hope i have answered you query.

Mac Sionnach