a troubling question about initiation

[Anonymous]

i am a solitary, self taught, eclectic wiccan. i initiated myself, under the guidelines set out in "a witches bible" (although the ritual was my own) and consider myself a first degree(a little rusty, depression took my Gods away from me    but im back!)

i just read a post in the bone yard, where lark? i think? claimed self initiation is not a valid initiation.i took my initiation because i felt, honestly, that i was ready.im not a delusional girl with ideas of grandeur.i've been initiated for years and know it'll be years more til im ready for my second.i know this.

but that claim really made me feel...i dunno, inferior?like im not "good enough" to be an initiated witch because i don't know a coven.i know it is supposed to be a reward almost from your peers, to say you meet the requirements of knowledge and skill of that degree, but i don't believe my God and Goddess have lead me wrong on this one.

could someone please clarify on the issue of self initiation?

thank you,
claire

[RedRonin]

I think your confusion is in trying to equate "initiation" with "dedication".  You can be self-dedicated.  You cannot be self-initiated.

Initiation is a rite of passage conferred on one by a larger group.  It is a recognition of standing in that group in terms of whatever guidelines have been set by them.  In terms of Wiccan Traditions, First Degree usually means one has to be able to reasonably define and discuss the basic tenets as well as participate to a specific level in the rituals.  You've demonstrated that you're serious enough to be accepted as a student and are ready for higher levels of instruction.

To call yourself a self-initiated Wiccan is similar to declaring yourself a black belt in a martial art without having taken classes.  You may or may not have the necessary levels of expertise, but you lack the recognition of any conferring body.

I'd suggest not getting all wrapped up in what you call yourself and concentrate on gaining the knowledge and experience itself.  In the end, that's what really matters, isn't it?

[Anonymous]

i guess.and thanks for the prompt response.but i am confused as to why the farrars claimed you can self initiate, and you're saying it can't happen...you know?

[Gryphon]

i guess.and thanks for the prompt response.but i am confused as to why the farrars claimed you can self initiate, and you're saying it can't happen...you know?

It is a matter of semantics. To be an initiate someone has to initiate you, you cannot give yourself the rank.

Remember that the Farrars are only human and can use a word incorrectly even if their meaning was something else entirely.

Should you try and join a coven and claim to be a first Degree intiate, and say you're self-initiated, you would still need to be intiated by that coven. Even if Janet herself was leading the coven.  :wink:

[Lark]

Ouch!  Didn't mean to make you feel bad...and it really wasn't what I was saying.

What I was saying is that the term "self-initiation" is a misnomer.  One can't and doesn't initiate oneself.  You can be initiated by someone else...and you can be initiated by the Gods..but you don't do it to yourself.  The correct term for what most people refer to as "self-initiation" is dedication. where one dedicates oneself to follow this path and the Old Gods.

As for degrees...those only apply in a group setting primarily because they are different in different Traditions and really have no meaning outside of the group that gives them.

Does this make you any less of a Witch?  Absolutely not!  I have met many solitary Wiccans who have no degrees and have never undergone an initiation that are very spiritual and powerful Witches.  And I've met some Third Degree Initiates I wouldn't give you two cents for.

So don't feel that I was trying to say that you are less because you haven't been part of a coven, or undergone a coven initiation.  That was not the point of my essay at all.  All I wanted people to see in the essay was how the degree system in Wicca works so they could understand it better.

(((Hugs)))

-Lark-

[Anonymous]

thank you everyone for your concise and soothing answers!

it sucks that im not as "high up" as i thought i was, but thats not the point.i serve the lord and lady everyday with how i act, i dont need a degree to tell me that.and no degree can lessen or gain my communication with the gods.

i guess if i want my degree, i need to find a good coven to train with.

i take it i also couldnt start my own coven without a degree?(not that i would, i am so not ready!)

thanks everyone!

[Lark]

i take it i also couldnt start my own coven without a degree?(not that i would, i am so not ready!)

Sure you can.  Not every coven even uses the degree system.  You can set your coven structure up however you and the other members of your group feel works best for them.

If you do want to think about starting your own coven at some point, you might want to look at this post http://branwenscauldron.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=750 for some things to consider in starting one up.

-Lark-

[Gryphon]

I take it i also couldnt start my own coven without a degree?(not that i would, i am so not ready!)

 
Generally a coven must be started by a Third Degree initiate from the Tradition you are studying. The reason for this is because there is a lot more to leading a coven than having a ritual once a month on the Full Moon.
 
The High Priestess is responsible for the emotional and spiritual lives of her coveners. The leaders of the coven are often called on to do things like help out in emergency situations, both legal and spiritual. They often act as peacemaker or counselor. Are you ready to talk someone out of harming themselves or making a midnight visit to a jail to assist someone who has run afoul of the law?
 
Lark is a HPs and her coven has hived. She can tell you much more of the life a honorable coven leader must lead. I take it from her answer that you may have visited her web site. I believe she also has an essay there about starting and leading a coven that you may find very informative.
 
And no, I am not an initiate in any Tradition. I chose not to follow that Path. It was not for me. I have chosen not to be part of a coven in spite of several invitations in the last few years. Goddess has different plans for me.