The Morgaine

[Gryphon]

I am having a brain fart and cannot remember the 4 animals associated with The Morgaine. I remeber the raven and the hound but for the life of me can't recall the other two.
 
Please don't tell me to do an internet search, every third wanna-be names herself Morgaine and has a personal web site. A search has been fruitless.
 
Unfortunately (for me) I recently sold all my older 101 books to make room for new ones and the one book that had an in depth accounting of the Celtic Goddesses was among the ones sold.
 
Does any one know what the other two beasties are?

[Lark]

The Morrighan is also associated with cattle and with crows (in addition to the ravens).

The Morrighan is a complex Deity who has associations with fertility and wealth...which to the ancient Celts meant cattle..hence her association with cows.

She is also a psychopomp who as a raven, or carrion crow devours the dead hero and transforms him into something more like a demigod.

-Lark-

[Anonymous]

In her three aspects, she's primarily associated with crows and horses. Macha (the mother aspect of the triad, if you insist on fitting them into the m/m/c archetype- another Irish mythological Macha was forced by her husband to show off her speed by running in a horse race on her own two feet while very pregnant), specifically, has associations with horses. One of Her titles is the Raven of Battles, as well.

I'm not sure of any ancient associations of 4 animals (but most of my Morrighan knowlege is from my reconstructionist friends, and so it wouldn't be)- the Celts tended to odd numbers rather than even, especially with goddesses- but YMMV- especially if you count crow and raven separately.

I'm not terribly familiar with the Morrighan as a goddess of wealth, so can't provide any input on that cattle association. (Though in the Ulster Cycle, the whole mess starts over a cow.) I think, depending on what you needed the association for, you might also consider that she's usually pictured with a whole FLOCK of crows.  


The Morgaine, by contrast, I'm not familiar with- is this a Celtic Wicca analog of the Morrigan or a anglicised-name version of the same Goddess? Morgaine, with that spelling, is of French/Romance derivation, and would probably tie more into the enchantress/wise woman/priestess modern interpretations of the Arthurian myths. (IIRC, isn't that the spelling Marion Zimmer Bradley uses in "The Mists of Avalon"? Although it's fiction, the book has an undeniable impact on many modern pagans, especially second-or-third hand.



Blessings,
Aife

[Brijrian]

Forgive me, but what do "YMMV" and "IIRC" stand for?

[Brock]

IIRC = "If I Recall Correctly

YMMV = "Your Mileage May Vary"  -  a phrase borrowed from US government disclosure statements on new automobiles, and commonly used in an ironic sense to acknowledge that the reader's opinion or experience may differ from that of the author.

[Lark]

I'm not terribly familiar with the Morrighan as a goddess of wealth, so can't provide any input on that cattle association.

In one of the Tains (an I can't remember which right now), the Morrighan actually shows up with her own cow or bull.  I'll have to see if I can find that reference.

-Lark-

[Gryphon]

I've always seen Macha and the Morgaine as two separate entities. I'm not sure that horses would be appropriate for my needs. But since a crow and a raven are so close physically, a stallion may be a good choice.
 
I have always associated The Morgaine with Rebirth/Death and considered her more often in her guise of the Dark Lady. The One who attends a warrior's death and surveys battles and battlefields.

[Anonymous]

Gryphon, can you give me any citations or sources for considering The Morrighan the same as Morgaine? I'd have to agree with the Morrighan as a dark lady type goddess (and she doesn't really fit into the m/m/c triad, but DOES have three aspects)

I'm just confused by the spelling differences. It's sort of like saying that Kaliope and Kali are related goddesses because of similar names, and they're SO NOT.

Are you maybe working with a modern, generic-celtic pantheon as opposed to a more reconstructive Irish-Celtic POV?


Aife

[Gryphon]

If you will reread my original post you will see that I have sold all my source material. I am working from memory, which, granted, at times is somewhat fuzzy.  

[Brijrian]

Thank you Brock.

[Anonymous]

I am having a brain fart and cannot remember the 4 animals associated with The Morgaine. I remeber the raven and the hound but for the life of me can't recall the other two.
 
Please don't tell me to do an internet search, every third wanna-be names herself Morgaine and has a personal web site. A search has been fruitless.
 
Unfortunately (for me) I recently sold all my older 101 books to make room for new ones and the one book that had an in depth accounting of the Celtic Goddesses was among the ones sold.
 
Does any one know what the other two beasties are?

Morrígan (her sisters being Badb, Macha, and possibly Nemain) is a member of the Tuatha de Danann who appears through the Táin  Bó Cuailnge as an eel to trip Cú  Chulainn son of Lugh Lamfada (aka Samildánach) as he fought in battle, as a wolf to stampede the cattle and trample him, and as a red heifer again to stampede the cattle. Once she finally secures his death, she comes to settles on him in the form of a raven, as she is a master in "fith-fath" or shapeshifting, appearing also as a beautiful young lady, a hag, or as any other creature. She also has many aspects such as:

-battle
-victory
-sexuality
-fertility
-sovereignty
-destruction
-death

I mention death only because she also appears at a stream washing a shroud of those who are about to pass to the island to the west, in this way she is a form of Ban-Sidhe who also shares many of her prophecies with those she means to help.

Morrígan is a manifestation of the extremes of sexual desire and viciousness, she delights in fear in all it's most terrifing forms. Could be that all she saw in  Cú Chulainn was that he was the ultimate bringer of carnage on the battle field...In this way they're a match made in heaven.

P.S. I had you a great big response all typed out and I lost it somehow...This was a summery. I'll leave it here until I get time to retype the original post I had planned...It was a good one too.    :cry:

[Anonymous]

I'm not terribly familiar with the Morrighan as a goddess of wealth, so can't provide any input on that cattle association.

In one of the Tains (an I can't remember which right now), the Morrighan actually shows up with her own cow or bull.  I'll have to see if I can find that reference.

-Lark-

I wonder if it's at all possible that you might be confusing Morrígan with Queen Medb?

[Anonymous]

I'm not terribly familiar with the Morrighan as a goddess of wealth, so can't provide any input on that cattle association.

In one of the Tains (an I can't remember which right now), the Morrighan actually shows up with her own cow or bull.  I'll have to see if I can find that reference.

-Lark-

Isn't one of her shapes a cow?  I can't remember what story it was, but I seem to remember her appearing to someone in the shape of a cow (Cu Cuhulain, maybe?).

--Phae