A Philosophical Question about Stones, Herbs, etc.

[Anonymous]

Hmmmm....  Good question.
Are you talking about glass/paste stones or "lab-created" ones?

[Anonymous]

"...  If your focus is chemical structure, you can buy lab created opals, emeralds and whatever else you may want at a much lower price.  If your focus is something more spiritual, then this may not be a good idea.  With herbs, it could make a difference in regards to how and where the plant was grown and which specific parts to use..."

(from the original post...)

If something is synthetic or man-made, it seems to me it would not have the same 'essence' we feel in other living things. Just as synthetic oils do not have the same essence as the plant the natural oil is derived from, why would synthetic stones have that same essence or vibration as those which occur naturally?  Is that 'playing God' so to speak and creating our own materials?

I'm not being facetious here. I'm new to using crystals and precious stones and have much more experience with plants.

Wren

[Anonymous]

I don't think it's "Playing God", but I do think the spell would be lower in effectiveness.  Not Ineffective, but lessened a bit.

[Anonymous]

Thank you. I'll keep that in mind.

Wren

[TheBriarRose]

Isn't it one's Intent that makes a spell work?  If you follow the thought that Organic is best, and synthetic doesn't work as well, the conclusion says that not using herbs and stones means your spellwork will be completely ineffective.  I cannot agree with that.

Did that make sense?  

I don't use many herbs and no stones or crystals, but my spells are just as effective as anyone elses.  I agree that fresh and best availble are optimum, but I don't think the Goddess will turn her nose up if your Basil is a slight bit wilted or the pacholi was manufactured instead of hand-milked....

[Shadow]

The spell would be lessened, why?

Laboratory grown stones are the exact chemical and mineral make up of the natural grown stones.  The only difference is that the manufacturers, so far, have agreed to add a dye that will flouress under uv light.  If they "forgot" to add the dye on a batch of, oh say rubies, no one (not even the best appraisers) would be able to tell them from natural stones.

It is possible that the stone will pick up the energies from the area it of the world where it is found, and man made stones will have a different energy because they grew in a lab and not in the side of a mountain.  However, if you are doing a specific working you are most likely going to cleanse the stone so that you have only the property of the stone itself anyway.  

I've worked with both natural and man made stones in many different ways.  I've used both in my jewelry, and I've used both in my magical workings.  Haven't noticed any real differences yet.  The only thing is, the more a stone is processed the more it needs to be cleansed of the energies of those who have worked it between the time it came out of the ground (or the pressure kiln) and the time you actually get your own hands on it.

Most of the time when I use a stone of any type in a magical working, other than specific healings, it is one that I have found, usually something extremely mundane like some river rock that has spoken to me.  I don't tend to use precious, or even semi-precious stones when I do magic.  On occasion I will wrap a particular semi-precious, or precious stone for a specific purpose, usually some form of healing, and the person it is done for will then wear it.  

The interesting thing is that once the stone has done its job the person almost always loses the piece and can never find it again.  It's not something I do on purpose, but I think it speaks quite eloquently of the power of the stones and the nature of their use.

[danae]

Some stones are very rare in nature.  For example, blue topaz is EXTREMELY rarely found occurring naturally.  However, you see blue topaz in a lot of jewelry.  So if it's found in lots of jewelry, but a very rare stone, how can those two statement be true?  Well, most blue topaz starts out life as clear topaz, then they get 'zapped' and then it turns blue.

Does this make it chemically different?  Not so much.  So why should the process of making the same stone (by nature or by science labs) change the intrinsic properties of the stone?  In my mind, the stone is a stone is a stone.  Doesn't matter if it's a piece of gravel or a diamond, as long as it serves its purpose to you.  Think about it, graphite (pencil lead) and diamonds are chemically the same, just the molecular structures are different.  

However, if you feel that altered stones will lessen your spells, then yes, they will.  Because you are taking the power of the stone away from it before you ever get started, in my opinion.  However, if you believe that the piece of gravel can do the same thing, then it will.

[Jennie]

I have used stones and crystals extensively. Sometimes, the stones have a definite personality, a spirit that is unique to that particular piece of stone that isn't neccesarily found in just any random chunk of the same mineral. These often turn out to be shamanic tools, or even "stone shamans", that is, a stone that communicates between realms in the same way that a human shaman does - at least, that is how they work with me. Some times they are gateways to other worlds, sometimes they have a particular affinity for healing a particular type of spiritual malaise, or contributing a particular kind of energy. These are somewhat rare, and you can pick through dozens or even hundreds of pieces which may be larger, or of a "higher quality" or a prettier appearance before you find them. I personally think that these qualities result from the experiences, if you will, of the particular stones in their growth and development.
 
Then there are the properties that are common to all minerals of a given composition. These are the properties that are commonly found in lists of correspondences. These properties, in my experience, result partly from the physical properties of the stones and partly from the suggestibility of the people using them for these purposes.These are usually either a sympathetic association or some empirical observation about the minerals of a particular type. Sodium chloride (salt), for example, has a magical association with purification, which came about largely because of its ability to prevent food spoilage and infection. Hematite has traditional associations with the blood (its name means bleeding stone) and with reflecting away negativity. Hematite leaves a red streak on a touchstone, and, because it is largely iron, can be used to treat anemia when powdered. This undoubtedly contributed to its reputation for benefitting the blood. Its physical appearance is quite reflective when polished, leading to the association with reflecting away the negative.

I wouldn't automatically assume that a lab-grown stone couldn't aquire a spirit, but it might be very different in character from the spirit that a stone that was formed in a volcano, for instance, might possess or manifest, just as the personality and skill set of someone who was raised in a remote Indonesian village would probably be very different from that of a person raised in Chicago or New York City. Both would still be human, but they would behave differently based on their past experiences. I think that it is important to remember that even though we may experience stones as alive, their genesis is very different than ours. The difference between a lab-grown stone and a naturally occuring one is more about speed and context than about any real difference in the fundamental process. It is not as if the slow precipitation of atoms into a matrix in a lab is all that different than the slow precipitation of atoms into a matrix in a cave somewhere.

Just my .02

Bright blessings,
Jennie

[Zenon]

speaking of herbs, I think that their chemical composition and physical qualities directly influence their vibratory nature.

[Anonymous]

...but I don't think the Goddess will turn her nose up if your Basil is a slight bit wilted or the pacholi was manufactured instead of hand-milked....

Being new to using stones and crystals, I was simply wondering if any of you have found a different vibration or essence in manufactured versus naturally occuring stones and crystals. And, while I agree that slightly wilted plants would not offend the Goddess, I have found that many artificial oils rarely contain the actual essence of the plant intended, rather being a mixture of other scents to mimic the one desired. In my experience with plants and oils, I do find a difference in the two. They 'feel' different.

I am new to spell casting and would agree that confidence in the stones, oils and herbs used would affect the spell. It was the interaction you feel with the individual item that I wondering about.

[Anonymous]

My vote goes to "A combination of physical and spiritual, such as vibrations"  

[Anonymous]

Personally I tend to agree with Shadow; the make up matters a bit, but intent and purpose as well as proper cleansing has an serious importance.
  Alchemically, one must agrue as to the difference; different conbinations of chemicals cause different vibrations and energy bands which are the same as altering the frequency of the crystal structure. The effect would be different if one did not take that knowlege into account and compensate for it.
 Think of it as not quite being able to tune into the radio station fully. One does get the sound and the effect, but the power is scattered and the full effect is lost.
   But then, personally I am a  natural Witch and don't really use all of that, in all my spellwork, but I do understand the theory from an alchemical standpoint and use it when I really need a tight focus and my own mind is a bit scattered from time to time.

[Anonymous]

With regards to Herbs -  these have been used for thousands of years by herbalists and most have now been scientifically tested for their healing properties.   In my opinion, Mother Nature gave us all the tools we need to heal ourselves, its just up to us to find them and use them.     With regards to stones - I believe it is the mixture of the physical and the spiritual. With a magnet, all the atoms are lined up in a certain way, the atoms of stones are made up in a certain way.    Oh well, just my humbel opinion.