Paganism and Homosexuality

[Anonymous]

Hello Everybody!

Being a bit of a gay rights activist I have received a lot of question from teenagers who fear their parents not accepting them because of their religion.

Now I know, as most of us do, about the ideas of the Christians, the Muslims and the other Major religions, but I was wondering if Pagans and Witches have certain ideas about homosexuality.

I couldn't find anything about this, so thought I'd ask here, what is your opinion on homosexuality, and is this your personal opinion or has it got something to do with being a Witch/Pagan?

[Shadow]

I figure that if I'm not sleeping with someone I don't give a tinker's damn what their sexual preferences are, it's just none of my business.

As for the way the gods look at it I think they don't much care either.  At least they never told me that I should shun homsexuals during any of the many talks I've had with them.

[Anonymous]

I believe love is love is love.  There is love and there is sex.  One is not the other and vice versa.  One can have sex with someone one feels no emotions for and one can love someone and never have sex with them.  

I don't believe sexual orientation has anything to do with one's religious beliefs.  I believe both are deeply personal things, only important to the peoples involved and their diety.

When you talk of teenagers, though, and that is people under 18, its different.  In my country, it's all about the parents until the teen is 18 years old.  Unless its an abusive situation where the teen is in danger of harm, they have to abide their parents wishes.  

As a parent of a pre-teen, I believe communication is the most important part of the next few years.  I hope my daughter will be open with me, and I will try my best to be open with her.  It's hard to balance the stirrings of freedom and rebellion in the teen with longing for tradition and structure of the parent, but communication can help.

Also, I'd lead the teens to examine "why" the parents won't accept them.  Is it due to lack of education?  That can be fixed.  Is it due to stereotypes and prejudice?  Sometimes that can be fixed.  

I think the bottom line is teens need to realize a few things:

1.  Parents are human beings.  We aren't given a class or an owners manual on how to deal with kids.  We are all mostly flying by the seat of our pants here.  Sometimes all we have to cling to is the way our parents did it..be it right or wrong.

2.  Parents have reasons, more than "because I'm the mommy".  We have thoughts and ideas about things too.  Just because they aren't the same as the teens, they are just as valid.

3.  Anything can be talked out.  The only way you have a "winner" and a "loser" is if the situation is a game or competition.  Compromise and understanding are neither.

Teach the teen some facilitative skills, such as active listening, and conflict resolution.  

Oh, and there are a *lot* of Christians who feel a person's sexual orientation has *NOTHING* to do with their personal religion.

[Anonymous]

Well, lemme just say this real quickly, in christianity, catholisism, and all the off shoot branches of these religions, doesn't the bible somewhat state that (and I really don't want to quote, this is a rough, very rough estimate), homosexuality is a sin, and God doesn't want you to do that.  Well, doesn't it also say that, "God hates the sin, but love the sinner."?  well, that is silly isn't it, it just comes right down to the fact that these people, are so caught up in what the Bible says, that they don't realize what it means.  I personally don't think that the gods care whatsoever, I've never come across anything that would make me think so.  I believe love is love, and it takes the same passions for a man to love a man, as a man to love a woman, and visa versa.  It's the same feelings no matter how you look at it, and with paganism/witchcraft/wicca/ect, it generates the same energy either way.

[Anonymous]

As a Wiccan, I believe very deeply in "do as you will, but harm none," not as a "law" or dogma, but as a moral concept that is appropriate for me.  What others chose to follow is not my concern, as long as I am not being coerced by them.  Nor am I concerned about how, or with whom,  others chose to express love for one another.

[Anonymous]

There are passages in the Bible that *can be interpreted* to say homosexuality is a sin.  I raised the same question with my priest, who gave me the stance some Christians are taking as interpretation of this passage.

But before one starts interpreting the Bible, one has to realize it's history.  Find RedRonin's post about his latest letter to the Editor.  I think he does a beautiful job of laying out the history of the Bible.  Also, one has to realize the limitations of the Bible, as to the era it was actually written in, and consider how many times, verbally, it was passed down before it was actually written out.  The bible also talks about making burnt offerings and live sacrifices, and stoning people to death.  That is not something we abide by anymore.

I don't want to get into quoting book, chapter, and verse because I cannot remember verbatim how she interpreted it, but I remember the gyst of it, and its a way I've felt for years.

The homosexuality condemned in the Bible was not about 2 people in love, sharing intimacy and a relationship.  It was about promiscuity, and lust and dominance and abuse, self-gratification and greed...all things which also happen in heterosexual relationships.  The sin came in wasting the wonderful gifts we have of intimacy and passion instead of sharing them with someone we love deeply.  

  We're told to love our neighbor as ourselves.  It doesn't say, Love all your neighbors except that guy down the street who has a boyfriend, or love all your neighbors except that woman who dances around in the moonlight in her back yard and doesn't go to your church....

Hope that helps explain it a bit for you  I've been told I'm a quite liberal and unconventional christian, so I cannot speak for all christians.  I can assure you a great majority of people who follow a Christian belief system would drop dead into faints and spasms over my posting this  Your milage will vary.

[Jennie]

Some of the quotes are about Lot, others aren't. There is a quick reference of all the quotations dealing with "sodomy" at:

http://www.rotten.com/library/sex/sodomy/bible/scripture/

And then there is my personal favorite, a site about the logical implications of biblical literalism:

http://www.godhatesshrimp.com/

I'm with Shadow on this one. If I'm not sleeping with them, I don't care!

I don't think that sexual orientation is a choice. I don't recall choosing to be heterosexual, and therefore I don't expect that homosexuals chose their sexual orientation, either. Why would I condemn someone for something that was beyond his or her control?

Bright blessings,
Jennie

[Anonymous]

Well, to add my two cents to a topic that has already expressed my views...

I find ignorance and bigotry repulsive just on standard.  The phrase "I don't like a whole section of people I have never met because they are different" makes absolutely no sense to me.  There are too many important issues in this world to worry about what goes on in your neighbors bedroom.  
I really think you need to do what makes you happy.  Love especially should never be denied.  It comes so few and far between that it needs to be embraced.  
Do I have a problem with friends that sleep around?  OH my yes, I worry about them completely.  Yet it does not matter to me if they go home with a woman one night and bring home a man the next.  I only worry for their safety.
The days of procreation, of populating the world with little Christians, is over.  We are facing a huge over crowding problem.
I think nature finds a way.  It may sound like bunny logic to some of you, but I believe in my heart of hearts that there is purpose to every action.  Our Earth is getting crowded and more people are finding ways outside the path of creating their own.  Waiting longer or in relationships where their own children are not a possibility.  I think over crowding causes many of the diseases we are watching spread as the Earth's own form of population control.
The gods have never told me that they look down on homosexuality, and I can not think of a single reason why they would.  I tend to think that we hold a little of the gods in each of us, and that it may only be wrong to say that the logic of the Divine plan is wrong.

[Anonymous]

Okay, but the initial question was abouyt the views of pagans and Wiccans on homosexuality. In some societies in years past, a homosexual was considered to be doubly blessed because they manifested the male and female spirits equally. Several tribes in America didn't seem to really care. If a man wanted to behave like a woman, then okay. He's a woman. If a woman acted like a man, okay, she's a man. Better hunt like one, too. So much for 'savages', eh?

I had written a story a long time ago where the society therein didn't think of 'man' and 'woman'. People were thought of as 'active' or 'passive'. Biological gender assignments were secondary, but marriage could only take place between the opposites. Two "actives" had too much potential for marital strife leading to broken homes, while two "passives" were more prone to be inactive in society and raise a child without discipline. It wasn't a bad shot for fourth grade.

[Anonymous]

I'm not gay but I've been hit on by guys. It really doesn't bother me. I just see it as a compliment from someone whose lifestyle is alot different than mine. As far as what people do in their own homes, Its their business and has no bearing on how I live my life so I don't care. I think my view is pretty typical of most people, whether it be pagan or otherwise.

[Lark]

One of the things that I like best about Wicca as a religion and as a way of life is that it tends to be very tolerant of the personal choices of those involved. Now, that is not to say that you won't find the occasional Wiccan who might get squeamish or even belligerent about homosexuality, but most will simply acknowledge your choice as right for you and go happily on about their business.

In the Tradition in which I trained, and in the coven I lead, we have just about every sexual preference except perhaps intentionally celibate. We have straights, gays, lesbians, bi's, open marriages, two triads, and even conventionally monogamous pairings like my husband and myself. We happily handfasted two of our Initiates last summer in a lovely ritual designed particularly by these two wonderful ladies. What is important in a relationship, at least as far as we are concerned, is not the shape of the plumbing involved, but the love and caring between two individuals.

There is also in Wicca one of the most beautiful pieces of religious writing that I have ever run across. Called the Charge of the Goddess, it was penned by one of the first Wiccan priestesses. In it it says in the words of the Goddess, "all acts of love and pleasure are my rituals". That pretty well sums up how Wiccans look at a sexual relationship.

One of the core beliefs about Wicca is expressed in the Wiccan Rede, "an it harm none, do as ye will". This basically means that as long as what you chose to do does not harm yourself or others, there is nothing in Wicca that says your actions are wrong. Wicca has no concept of "sin" such as a Christian would put forward. In place of rigid rules on what is "right" and what is "wrong", the Wiccan path teaches personal choice and bearing the responsibility for the consequences of that choice. It is in many ways a more difficult path to tread since there are no absolutes, but it also helps us to grow and mature as human beings when we have no one but ourselves to blame our mistakes and shortfalls on.

Remember that we also believe that each of us holds within ourselves that which is God and that which is Goddess. If you respond in that recognition to a partner, of whichever sex, in a loving and nurturing relationship, the Gods will certainly not say that you are wrong. We are all creatures of the Divine, created here on earth as we are. If the Divine chose to create someone in this life as gay, lesbian, or bisexual, then it must be right for them now. The Divine does not make mistakes.

Blessings,

-Lark-