Witchcraft and Christianity

[Anonymous]

This website says it all, as far as I'm concerned http://witchychristian.tripod.com/ChristianWitch.html

[Anonymous]

Midian..THANK YOU!!!! thank you for that link!!!

Now I don't have to explain it over and over!

And the Preacherman said "Can I get an AMEN!"

[Anonymous]

I think a large part of the problem is a disagreement of who owns the words.  Who gets to define them.  There are established churches with clearly defined theologies... and there are the practioners who call themselves Christians who barely nod to the definitions those churches insist on.  Does a Priest have more difinatory power than a little old lady?  Maybe in terms of what his church is, but not for Christianity as a whole.  Does a Wiccan high priestess have more difinatory power than a solitary?  For her coven, maybe her trad, but for Wicca as a whole?  Let alone all of the non-Wiccans that are called witches.

"Proper" defined witchcraft and christianity may end up being incompatible.  There is a lot of room for overlap in the practical/pragmatic forms, though.  And if the practical/pragmatic are dropped from the definition, both Christianity and witchcraft have to do a recount... My trad would no longer count as witchcraft, for one thing.

[Anonymous]

What an interesting discussion and debate! And there hasn't been any flaming--wonderful!

IBriarRose, I love debate and find it a useful way of learning from others, not a way of proving something I already believe.  Debate should be what a good discussion forum is about.  My only concern about combining Christianity and witchcraft is that it would be difficult to be true to the beliefs of either.  Surely you agree that sin is an important concept in Christianity.  How do you reconcile this with a belief that sin doesn't exist?  (Just curious, if you don't want to answer, ignore it.)  I've searched Wiccan and witchcraft texts for any reference to sin and the only thing I could find is what I said before, that no act is in itself sinful but only that the intent may be harmful, irresponsible or otherwise ill-advised.  Taking the beliefs of each religon one by one and comparing them, it would be a difficult task to reconcile them to the point that one could accept both without creating conflicts in his own belief system.

I thought I would just toss in a few thoughts. I know an elderly Witch who is 89 years old. She comes from a family that practiced Christian folk magic; ie, curing with Psalms, prayer, herbs, etc. When she met her late husband, she became a Witch, and she still uses the Bible sometimes though she does not believe in everything it says. Just as not all Witches believe in the Threefold Law. She and her husband believe in Jesus as *a* Sacred King. To them, the Holy Trinity is the Holy Ghost (God Herself), Father, and Divine Son. These are not the only deities they prayed to, but the pattern they followed. They equally revere Isis, Osiris, and Horus. They teach the Huna understanding of sin meaning to hurt someone. Simple as that.

I know what you're saying, Branwen, that to be a Christian, one must believe certain things, but there is great leeway. As someone pointed out, there are also a number of different denominations, just as there are numerous traditions in Witchcraft, Wicca, and Neo-Paganism. Must all Witches believe in the Law of Three, Reincarnation, a God or a Goddess? Before she died, Doreen Valiente said that she no longer believed in the Threefold Law. Does this mean she is not a full-fledged
Witch? There are also feminist, separatist Witches who do not believe in male deities.

I recently met a man who had been an initiated Witch in the 80s, but left his coven to become an Episcopalian minister. I admit, I am still trying to wrap my mind around this. So I accept that there are Witches who also consider themselves to be Christians. The Farrars once wrote that they have friends who are Catholic and Wiccan (Maxine Sanders was one). I think they wrote that many Catholics make excellent Witches.

Blessings,
Dragon

[Anonymous]

My question, BriarRose, is how do you reconcile the Bible passages that flat-out condemn the practice of Witchcraft, divination, or any of the other arts associated with sorcery? And the sayings of Jesus, such as "I am the Way, the light and the truth, and no one comes to the Father except through me?"

Well, I've said it other places here, but I'll say it again.  I need to save this to the boneyard so I can just send a link instead of typing it out all the time

Divination is telling the future.  I don't claim to see anything on my own.  Anything I see about the future is a gift from God.  On my own I am nothing.  God gives us all many gifts and talents, and we are to use them to glorify him, if you want to take what the bible says.  People that do divination, spellwork, and anything else just so people will revel in "the person" are what the Bible warns against.  Also, if you go back to the original tranlations, the original word wasn't "Witch", but poisoner.

Also, I do not take the Bible as literal. The Bible was put together by man, written by man, and interpreted by man.   I have a relationship with God as I see It.  The Bible is a supplement to my beliefs, but I do not feel it is a requirement to worship the Bible's words to be a Christian.

I hope this clears it up for you.  If not, please, ask away and I'll do my best to answer.  I'll say this though, recently, I've been attacked for expressing my beliefs here in this forum, so if I'm wary, don't take that personally.

[Anonymous]

Personally, I think how one "reconciles" their beliefs is no one's f'ing business but their own.

[Anonymous]

Whoo, boy.

Briar, as I see it you are a valued member of this board.  I enjoy you, your insights, your creativity and your ability to be openminded.  I pray you don't go.

I also have no problem with the idea of a "Christian Witch", just as I have not problem with the idea of a Islamic, Jewish, Wiccan, or anything else witch.

As far as the bible verse in question..."I am the way the truth and the light, no one comes to the father except by me"...I have equally seen it interperted as Jesus saying he was showing a path to enlightenment.  In fact, that is what one of my early mentors, an Episcopal Priest, taught me.  Quite Bhuddist of him, don't you think?

The following points bear making:

1.  No-one's beliefs are anyone's business but thier own
2.  Unless one was there to hear the words, it's all hearsay
3.  The "Bible" has been re-written and re-interpreted many times
4.  Each interpretation casts a different light on the words (have you ever tried to read various english interpretations of poetry?  Or how about Sessy when she says something us American English speakers just don't get ).  In fact, "Let there be light" in Genesis was changed from the original "Be Light".  The meaning changes subtly, doesn't it?

I like that we have so many beliefs and denominations here.  We all lose when we limit ourselves and each other.

Ayianna,  I do not agree with your concept of core beliefs of Christianity excluding witchcraft.  Although I do not call myself a Christian because I do not believe that Jesus was god incarnate any more than I am (and I do believe that I am and you are god incarnate), the idea of the Triune God came later in Christianity as the religeon evolved just as Paul/Saul brought in his idea of a social structure (in my mind he was a mysoginist), and Constantine got rid of re-incarnation.  My point is that the Christian scriptures can be interpreted many ways, as can the Torah, as is evidenced by the tradition of arguement in the Jewish faiths, and the Koran, as is evidenced by the many factions of Islam...ad infinitum.

There could even be an arguement that Jesus himself was a witch!  After all, what about those miracles?

As Sev said:

They're YOUR beliefs and they're sacred, and eveything else is just gibberish.

[Anonymous]

As far as the bible verse in question..."I am the way the truth and the light, no one comes to the father except by me"...I have equally seen it interperted as Jesus saying he was showing a path to enlightenment.  In fact, that is what one of my early mentors, an Episcopal Priest, taught me.  Quite Bhuddist of him, don't you think?

 
Indeed.  
Jesus' quote speaks of "the Father," a popular way that the Jews conceptualized their deity.  And much of what Jesus taught was about how the Jews had tacked on a lot of extras to their scriptures, and were doing things much more for show than spirit.  Could it be that he was speaking of how his audience ought to be following their particular path, rather than giving an absolute for all of humanity?

[Sebbi]

I'm not sure whether this has already been mentioned. It's a long discussion and I'm not sure whether this crops up or not.

My Grandfather was born and raised Christian (though he doesn't consider himself one) and about a year and a half ago he gave me some books about mysticism.

They discussed in detail magick in many forms, the ethics of magick, the origins and many other things and all the while never once made any referance to any Celtic ancient traditions, or anything similar.

They were all written by Christian (or about Christian Mystics). The first is Spyros Sathi a Greek mystic. Also Paulo Coelho is part of a Catholic Mystical brotherhood. Don Juan I'm unsure about as I have yet to read Carlos Cassensa's material, although I have read some of the thoery.

There are many area's of the world that do not have much connection to "Witchcraft" but have strong mystical traditions (e.g. The Sufis.)

In no way does the practice of Magick contradict Christian belief. It contradicts COMMON Christian belief.

BLessings

Sebbi

[Anonymous]

I know this is really late to chime in but do we really have to define our beliefs? As long as our paths lead us to the Divine should we really care what they are called? I might just be wrong but this is how I feel. Blessings.